How much do you REALLY pay in federal income taxes every year?

[kombayn]

No what I'm saying is the Federal Government already gets the money they need from other places, why do they need to gauge my paycheck that I earned in the process? That's not freedom and if they did raise the taxes on other items, at least I can choose not to drive a car or take public transportation instead and that doesn't involve taking money from MY paycheck! Can I make this anymore clear for you? Not trying to be rude, but I am frustrated with the conversation at hand.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

We paid 19,8xx in taxes last year, but that was just payroll taxes.

Add on property tax another 1400 bucks and we're at 21,2xx then tack on sales tax and gas tax and we'd be up closer to 27k maybe 28k....which is about 35% of our income which means basically everthing we earn till the end of april goes to pay taxes.

edit: thats with both of us putting in a lot in our 401k decreasing our taxable income and our health insurance is fairly expensive as well, which also decreases the taxable income. So if our insurance was cheaper or we weren't contributing to our 401k's we would have paid a lot more.

if 28k is a third of your income (you actually said higher), then you make about $84,000 a year...and you are saying you pay approximately $20,000 in payroll taxes...

A fourth of your monthly gross income goes directly to FICA?

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by kombayn

No what I'm saying is the Federal Government already gets the money they need from other places, why do they need to gauge my paycheck that I earned in the process? That's not freedom and if they did raise the taxes on other items, at least I can choose not to drive a car or take public transportation instead and that doesn't involve taking money from MY paycheck! Can I make this anymore clear for you? Not trying to be rude, but I am frustrated with the conversation at hand.

There is simply no way to avoid consumption taxes and earn income and sustain a life...if you have to travel to work...and all travel is taxed...how can you "choose" to travel less if you've already chosen the cheapest way to get to work? The only "choice" you'd have is to pay more taxes...

[kombayn]

Alright, I hear your point Thorgrim. But I'm going to raise you mine, if I do travel for work, usually my job will pay for my travel, now if they decide not to... Not having to pay an income tax, leaves me with MORE income. Now I can use that money to help pay for that tax increase (which even if it's raised to even up the loss of my income tax coming into their budget, I still don't travel enough that it will save myself the money in the process). Now here's the funny party, people still pay these travel taxes while being taxed from their income.

From my stand-point, federal income taxes do not help our economy. They do weaken it, because the economy is based off of the public spending that money on goods and/or services. Now without a federal income tax, a lot of people will save that money and in the end will spend that money back into the economy which only helps it grow.

In the end, the Federal Income Tax to me is the Government saying, "You don't know how to spend this money on roads, schools, health, goods or other said items. But we know how to do that for you! So what we're doing is taking a percentage of your income so we can spend it, how we see fit." and in the end, you're allowing a small group of people deciding how to SPEND THE MAJORITIES money. That's wrong and that's foolish to think that politicians are like Greek Gods or any god for that matter and they really don't exist as a human fleshed person. I mean you see people all over the world fuck their lives, why is it so hard to believe that the Government can fuck up ours?

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

if 28k is a third of your income (you actually said higher), then you make about $84,000 a year...and you are saying you pay approximately $20,000 in payroll taxes...

A fourth of your monthly gross income goes directly to FICA?

We made 78,900 dollars last year. If you want the exact numbers I can get them for you.

edit: and how does a fourth of my income go to FICA? About a fourth of our income comes out in payroll taxes. Payroll taxes include FICA.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

We made 78,900 dollars last year. If you want the exact numbers I can get them for you.

edit: and how does a fourth of my income go to FICA? About a fourth of our income comes out in payroll taxes. Payroll taxes include FICA.

Seems we were talking on different levels, I was talking about FICA and you were including state income tax and etc

I would note that if you moved just a few miles...you wouldn't have any state and possibly local tax on your payroll taxes...so i don't see that as a federal issue...can you take apart the numbers some more...

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Seems we were talking on different levels, I was talking about FICA and you were including state income tax and etc

I would note that if you moved just a few miles...you wouldn't have any state and possibly local tax on your payroll taxes...so i don't see that as a federal issue...can you take apart the numbers some more...

Sure, here's the numbers...

Federal Income Tax Wages 53,983
SS and Medicare Wages 57,374

Federal Income Tax 7,815
Social Security 3,557
Medicare 832
State 3,411


My wife
Federal Income Tax Wages 23,476
SS and Medicare Wages 25,544

Federal Income Tax 3,208
Social Security 1,584
Medicare 370
State 1028

Subtract my 499 state refund and 1404 federal refund and you get....
Total payroll taxes 20,002 dollars.


Property Tax 1330

We're big savers so lets just assume we only spent about 25,000 on items that were subject to our 8.5% sales tax.

Sales tax 2125
My wife drives 52 miles each way, a total of 104 miles per day for 255 days a year and gets approximately 33mpg.

321 dollars gasoline tax

I probably paid about 100 dollars in gas tax last year (I dont drive much)

Then we had a 134 dollar personal property tax bill (which conveniently comes at december each year )

That brings the total to 24012 per year, and my sales tax estimates are pretty conservative we could probably tack on another 500 or so onto that.

Then what about all the taxes I paid on my cell phones/cable bills? Thats another 100 or so dollars.

But since I dont know those exact numbers lets just go with 24,012 per year. On a total taxable income of 82,918 for SS and Medicare purposes and 77,459 for FICA purposes.

If you eliminate the health insurance tax deduction which comes right off the top we had a total income of 85,648.

[Thorgrim]

So, including your refund, you pay $9600 in federal taxes for around $80,000 in income...that's a pretty good deal in my eyes...again, like Lou said, more like 10%, or the first 6 weeks

$5000 to social security...like I said before in previous threads...you actually get money from that back...sure it's not your ultra-coolest savings plan, but people living into their 90s are still getting their SS checks, add all those up and you're talking a lot of cash...much like what they paid into it

state taxes we've been over...it's what you pay for your great republican reddest of red states with...move a few miles you'll be in Texas with no state income tax...has nothing to do with the federal government

Medicare that's a legit complaint, but we're talking $1000 a year, so again that doesn't add up anything significant to approach 1/3 of your income

property tax is local...you can live somewhere that has crappier public schools and so forth...it was your choice

sales tax is local...you can live in a state like NH with no state or sales tax...

As a soft republican gone libertarian...you think you'd be all for State Power...but you look at disdain that the horrible state of Oklahoma is charging you:
Oklahoma Tax on Sales
Oklahoma Tax on Property
Oklahoma Tax on Income
Jees it sounds like you got a lot of problems with Oklahoma, I mean I know their football program should have played in the national championship...but...

Just to recap:
There is No Federal State Tax
There is No Federal Local Tax
There is No Federal Sales Tax
There is No Federal Property Tax

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

So, including your refund, you pay $9600 in federal taxes for around $80,000 in income...that's a pretty good deal in my eyes...again, like Lou said, more like 10%, or the first 6 weeks

$5000 to social security...like I said before in previous threads...you actually get money from that back...sure it's not your ultra-coolest savings plan, but people living into their 90s are still getting their SS checks, add all those up and you're talking a lot of cash...much like what they paid into it

state taxes we've been over...it's what you pay for your great republican reddest of red states with...move a few miles you'll be in Texas with no state income tax...has nothing to do with the federal government

Medicare that's a legit complaint, but we're talking $1000 a year, so again that doesn't add up anything significant to approach 1/3 of your income

property tax is local...you can live somewhere that has crappier public schools and so forth...it was your choice

sales tax is local...you can live in a state like NH with no state or sales tax...

As a soft republican gone libertarian...you think you'd be all for State Power...but you look at disdain that the horrible state of Oklahoma is charging you:
Oklahoma Tax on Sales
Oklahoma Tax on Property
Oklahoma Tax on Income
Jees it sounds like you got a lot of problems with Oklahoma, I mean I know their football program should have played in the national championship...but...

Just to recap:
There is No Federal State Tax
There is No Federal Local Tax
There is No Federal Sales Tax
There is No Federal Property Tax

Looking only at the federal income tax doesn't give even close to the whole picture. Not to mention for SS and Medicare the EMPLOYER pays an equivelent amount which is roughly 10% of an employees salary.

You have to look at the entire tax bill that people in this country are bearing...

My state has major issues you're correct but its getting better pretty quickly. Taxes have gone down on a state level quite a bit. The corrupt politicians are actually getting voted out in a lot of areas. They're being replaced with people who actually give a damn.

[6SpeedTA95]

Hey Thorg if NH doesn't have state income or sales tax how do they get their revenues? All property taxes?

I know texas does prop taxes instead of income taxes and has a small sales tax. Texas = win

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

Hey Thorg if NH doesn't have state income or sales tax how do they get their revenues? All property taxes?

I know texas does prop taxes instead of income taxes and has a small sales tax. Texas = win

i believe they have a luxury tax, which is technically a sales tax...and yes property taxes...and they also have a dividend tax income...which again is technically a state income tax...but since most americans either don't own stock or own stock only through an investment plan like a 401k/IRA...they aren't paying those taxes...and most people aren't buying luxury cars...

however, i think they don't even pay their state/local government elected officials...they cut a lot of corners...i believe they try to lower enough taxes to get corporations to move to where the rich employees live and then tax those corporations for state roads and such

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

Looking only at the federal income tax doesn't give even close to the whole picture. Not to mention for SS and Medicare the EMPLOYER pays an equivelent amount which is roughly 10% of an employees salary.

You have to look at the entire tax bill that people in this country are bearing...

My state has major issues you're correct but its getting better pretty quickly. Taxes have gone down on a state level quite a bit. The corrupt politicians are actually getting voted out in a lot of areas. They're being replaced with people who actually give a damn.

It's completely unfair to look at the "entire tax bill"

If you live in some tiny town in New Hampshire with no real public schools? Fine but prepare to pay outrageous costs for your kids primary schooling, secondary, and colleges are $30,000 for the basic NH college...unlike tax-states like Arizona where it's $5,000 a year

Even a more clear point, I can cite my state, you can live in some areas with NO local taxes, and very low property tax...but on CNN you'll hear people call it a hick-area with no culture...well they're mostly right, it's ugly and full of stripens and there's a reason they have to keep taxes so low, and the local government can't afford to fill in the stripens or make the area look halfway decent

Those people whine and complain about being stuck in central PA, so they make the big move to Northeast Philadelphia and live in some the nicest urban areas in the country...full of culture, entertainment, SEPTA, etc etc...and then they complain about 4% local tax...well you CHOSE to live there, you wanted all that friggin culture and luxury...cut out that 4% local tax and we'd have to fire all the police and then your posh neighborhood would look like Beirut of the 1980s

if you're going to include local taxes and such...you might as well include sales tax, and then maybe we can move the bar way beyond 1/3 after we include people who spend all their money on luxury goods with the highest sales tax rate

[thewise1]

I'm glad Thorgrim is here to tell us we're getting a good deal when it's OUR money that's being taken from us and not his

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by thewise1

I'm glad Thorgrim is here to tell us we're getting a good deal when it's OUR money that's being taken from us and not his

I'm glad thewise1 is here to tell us the US Federal Government and all it is doing right now and has done since the founding of the nation isn't worth 10% or less of his income

[thewise1]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I'm glad thewise1 is here to tell us the US Federal Government and all it is doing right now and has done since the founding of the nation isn't worth 10% or less of his income

10% no

[Kytro]

Originally Posted by thewise1

I'm glad Thorgrim is here to tell us we're getting a good deal when it's OUR money that's being taken from us and not his

While I do not think that the government spends well, the current system of government has taxation and this is part of the condition of earning money

[thewise1]

Originally Posted by Kytro

While I do not think that the government spends well, the current system of government has taxation and this is part of the condition of earning money

Master of the obvious much?

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by thewise1

10% no

We should have let the British and Russians have at it with their claim up to the 42nd parallel...then your home wouldn't even exist, or you'd be under some sort of tyrant/monarch

Let alone dealing with the Spanish...or the whole "49 or fight" business...etc etc

And ofcourse, all the money they lost in basically giving away the west to white trash, and the money for corporations to develop it and transportation...

WA has to be one of the states this country has done the most for to help develop so you can have a state as large and populous as Virginia and enjoy it all...and you feel no debt whatsoever for everything the country did...

[kombayn]

Originally Posted by Kytro

While I do not think that the government spends well, the current system of government has taxation and this is part of the condition of earning money

The next question you should ask yourself is, "Is it right?" Because I don't think it is.