So Obama's answer to high fuel prices is to TAX the oil companies???

TankRizzo · 04-29-2008, 09:38 PM

BRILLIANT!

Candidates clash on gas-tax holiday - CNN.com

Instead, Obama would use a windfall profits tax on oil companies to help low-income families pay their energy bills.

OK, so the poor get help and the burden of making up the difference in oil profits will be strapped to the backs of working people. Wonderful.

Thorgrim · 04-29-2008, 09:44 PM

How much money did you make on windfall profits in oil this year? Do you even know of anyone who did?

TankRizzo · 04-29-2008, 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

How much money did you make on windfall profits in oil this year? Do you even know of anyone who did?

I'm sorry, this must have gone over your head. I meant to imply that if you tax the oil companies, they're going to maintain their profit margins by passing the cost along to the consumers which would only drive oil prices higher. Sorry, I didn't expect anyone to take this with a child-like literalness of me and my friends reaping the rewards of windfall oil profits.

Thorgrim · 04-29-2008, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by TankRizzo

I'm sorry, this must have gone over your head. I meant to imply that if you tax the oil companies, they're going to maintain their profit margins by passing the cost along to the consumers which would only drive oil prices higher. Sorry, I didn't expect anyone to take this with a child-like literalness of me and my friends reaping the rewards of windfall oil profits.

See, if we took away X from an oil company, and used that amount to lower energy prices...that may cover you...and also oil companies don't have a policy that if they have a 100b profit intead of a 900b profit, they must raise prices...that's why it is a profit on tax, not on the company or product

the only thing that would suffer is the pool of funds for outrageous CEO bonuses, which I know, will break some conservative hearts

TankRizzo · 04-29-2008, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

See, if we took away X from an oil company, and used that amount to lower energy prices...that may cover you...and also oil companies don't have a policy that if they have a 100b profit intead of a 900b profit, they must raise prices...that's why it is a profit on tax, not on the company or product

the only thing that would suffer is the pool of funds for outrageous CEO bonuses, which I know, will break some conservative hearts

Their record profits are based on record sales. If you go take a chunk out of their profits, they're going to make up for it elsewhere. It's not going to hurt any CEO, it's going to hurt the blue collar workers that Obama can't seem to connect with

Thorgrim · 04-29-2008, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by TankRizzo

Their record profits are based on record sales. If you go take a chunk out of their profits, they're going to make up for it elsewhere. It's not going to hurt any CEO, it's going to hurt the blue collar workers that Obama can't seem to connect with

it's speculation based on bad business...a business already making profit only has problems with shareholders when profits are down because of company action...this would be the federal government...shareholders would not be demanding the company re-do it's policies when the policies are already creating a profit

to say otherwise is a guess at best

TankRizzo · 04-29-2008, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

it's speculation based on bad business...a business already making profit only has problems with shareholders when profits are down because of company action...this would be the federal government...shareholders would not be demanding the company re-do it's policies when the policies are already creating a profit

to say otherwise is a guess at best

So you expect the oil companies to be good boys and to accept their punishment for having the nerve to make money?

Thorgrim · 04-29-2008, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by TankRizzo

So you expect the oil companies to be good boys and to accept their punishment for having the nerve to make money?

No I expect them to lash back and move to Europe

The US Government has been helping the oil companies for a long long time and still do to this day...they aren't stupid

The Carter tax of 1980 was not a real windfall tax, they taxed the product and tried to make estimates on the market and true value and blah blah blah all sorts of clumsy things instead of just going "Okay, you made 900b last year in profit, im going to ask for 800b"

the 1980s tried to control the oil market...this is a short term and entirely different tax that would help people suffering from incredibly energy prices

it's so hilarious that conservatives on financial networks cry and rave that the people need to bail out corporation x,y,z etc etc every once and awhile, yet think it's horrible that a corporation that can afford it, without any debt, to help out the American people...oh my god that is just HORRIBLE!

People only exist to bail out corporations, they are not to get any help from corporations...unless they find some way to do and screw them over even worse (see cigarette companies spending a few dimes for charity and spending more to advertise it so they'd have a better more profitable image)

TankRizzo · 04-29-2008, 11:13 PM

those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it.

Thorgrim · 04-29-2008, 11:44 PM

Originally Posted by TankRizzo

those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it.

I think you posted in the wrong thread, this isn't price controls, this is a tax

I mean honestly, what are you talking about?

You see, everyday at Walmarts around the world, when you buy a desk or a chair or a shirt...you pay a sales tax...but there is not a price control on shirts...there are no long lines for shirts...and if we taxed windfall profits on shirts...there would be no long line for shirts that went around walmart

kombayn · 04-30-2008, 01:31 AM

Taxing isn't the answer. The reason oil prices are so high because the stock market is investing into barrels of oil which are at $120.00 because everyone is scared that, and I'm paraphrasing here... "The Al Qaeda is out to get us." If you check news stories, we have tons of oil for the world, but the Iraq War has put people in such fear that other countries are going to withhold oil from us, so the people on the market do the smart thing and invest, invest, invest in oil. I'm sure you heard brokers on radio commercials going ape-shit about investing in oil, gold and the Euro back in 2005 because of the on-goings in Iraq. So if you want to blame anyone on the high profits of oil companies, blame the Stock Market Investors... or blame yourself for not investing in barrels of oil. It's not their fault they are making money.

thewise1 · 04-30-2008, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

How much money did you make on windfall profits in oil this year? Do you even know of anyone who did?

Quite a bit, actually. Fucking looters

TankRizzo · 04-30-2008, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I think you posted in the wrong thread, this isn't price controls, this is a tax

I mean honestly, what are you talking about?

You see, everyday at Walmarts around the world, when you buy a desk or a chair or a shirt...you pay a sales tax...but there is not a price control on shirts...there are no long lines for shirts...and if we taxed windfall profits on shirts...there would be no long line for shirts that went around walmart

Do you think before you type? You're comparing shirts to FUEL/OIL. Again with the child-like understanding and analogies. The entire world's shirt supply doesn't hinge on market speculation and OPEC; nor does the price of shirts immediately effect EVERY product that hits store shelves.

WickedLou9 · 04-30-2008, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by TankRizzo

Their record profits are based on record sales. If you go take a chunk out of their profits, they're going to make up for it elsewhere. It's not going to hurt any CEO, it's going to hurt the blue collar workers that Obama can't seem to connect with

Except for the fact that people will start reducing consumption if the price goes higher. The market can only bear so much cost before people will start looking for alternatives in ernest. So if they raised prices to compensate, they would be ensuring thier own demise.. I don't think they would raise prices at all. It might hurt thier stock value though. They might be encouraged to invest thier revenue back into thier business to avoid the tax.

WickedLou9 · 04-30-2008, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by TankRizzo

those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it.

Ummm, know your history? You are aware that the shortage in supply in the 1970's was due to OPEC cutting off production. It wasn't so much that gasoline got super expensive. It did go up in price, but there simply wasn't any gasoline to be had, thus the quotas and lines at the pump. It's not anything like what we are seeing today.

motivez · 04-30-2008, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by TankRizzo

So you expect the oil companies to be good boys and to accept their punishment for having the nerve to make money?

We already subsidize the oil industry, what's the problem with getting our investment back through windfall profit tax?

TankRizzo · 04-30-2008, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by motivez

We already subsidize the oil industry, what's the problem with getting our investment back through windfall profit tax?

If you dig into their profits, they're just going to pass that cost along to the consumers. And how exactly does helping low-income families pay their energy bills help the price of gas at all, especially when you tax the oil companies to do it. This Robin Hood mentality is going to make the people in the middle suffer.

WickedLou9 · 04-30-2008, 11:19 AM

I think it might actually bring down prices. It would encourage the oil companies to operate at lower margins and to do that , they could simply reduce thier prices. The windfall profits would most likely be in the form of a percentage, so if they reduce prices, increase volume, they could avoid the tax and pull in more money. Not as much as they would have made without the tax, but still more than if they just raised prices to offset.

kombayn · 04-30-2008, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by TankRizzo

If you dig into their profits, they're just going to pass that cost along to the consumers. And how exactly does helping low-income families pay their energy bills help the price of gas at all, especially when you tax the oil companies to do it. This Robin Hood mentality is going to make the people in the middle suffer.

Lou, he is right. The Oil companies will just pass it to the consumer, why wouldn't they? We're talking about business men here, not social activists that want peace and love for the world. We're talking about men who are in the business of making money, you cut into their money, they get it back by raising prices. Which we'll all suffer for.

Ardentfrost · 04-30-2008, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

We already subsidize the oil industry, what's the problem with getting our investment back through windfall profit tax?

Can't we get our money back by no longer subsidizing them? That would also introduce competition by allowing other companies the ability to hop in on a level playing field.

BRILLIANT!