I have a plan to help fix inner-city schools (Buffalo, NY case study)

A_C_E · 04-30-2008, 02:21 PM

Ok, here's a little background. I was reading a Buffalo blog yesterday which was mentioning how badly the overall school performance was in the Buffalo Public Schools, and referenced data which showed that graduation rates were less than 60% at most city school districts in major cities (Kansas City, Indianapolis, Portland, Pittsburgh were some of the more surprising inclusions). So I started to think about ways in which to fix urban school districts and make these areas appealing again to families which have fled to the suburbs because of the schools. Following is a rough outline of what I came up with, and I'm interested in your feedback. I've gotten positive thoughts from a number of people so far, and if enough people think it's viable, I might pitch this idea to some people back home over the summer. This setup is not exclusive to Buffalo, but I'm using it as an example since it's the city I know best. Here goes:

Background Info: In the Buffalo City school district, there is a hybrid neighborhood/city-wide plan in place. Parents can choose to send their children to the neighborhood elementary/secondary schools, and transportation will be provided for them. They can also send their kids to any other school within the city, but the parents are responsible for transport. There is one very good elementary (Olmsted 54) and one very good middle (Olmsted 56) school, and two good high schools that require students to "test" into (Hutchinson Technical and City Honors). Basically every other school is crap. At this point in time, most of the school budget per students comes from Albany, with only a small amount coming from local school taxes.

The Plan:

1.) Slash-and-Burn: This is going to be the hardest thing to accomplish and is going to need to be done with manipulation, force, and some outright Karl Rove-style tactics. Basically, I would need to clean out the school board/district administrators. Fire half of the employees, starting with the most incompetent and corrupt ones (there are many). Then, take a hard line with the Unions, risking strikes, bad publicity, whatever. I'll hire non-union temps if necessary. Then, I'm going to need to do an across-the-board reduction in salary--for teachers, janitors, principals, lunch ladies, you name it. Nothing dramatic, a thousand per year perhaps. The teachers in buffalo are already the second-highest paid, on average, in America, with a cost-of-living adjusted average salary around $55,000/yr and a high of $101,000/yr. Anything that can possibly be cut without unduly burdening the students need to be cut.

2.) Redistricting: Next, I want to gerrymander the one existing school district into four separate quasi-districts. Draw the lines roughly along major thoroughfares delineating wealthy areas from poor ones. Without creating any new positions, change the responsibilities of the current district administrators to give them oversight over the new quasi-districts. Have each district have their own schools, busing systems, salaried employees, etc. I would create one rather wealthy district, one moderately wealthy one, and two poor ones. Students would be forced to attend the schools that are located within their home districts; no more driving your kid across the city every morning to go to a better school.

3.) Tax-Structure Changes: Then, I want to screw with the school tax structure. Raise the school taxes across the board, so every resident in the city sees a property tax increase. Maybe we could cut something unnecessary elsewhere to keep taxes from going up, but either way, raise the school taxes so more local money is going to find the schools.

4.) Revenue-Sharing: Now, take all that money you get from Albany to support the schools and put it into a central pot. Then, you take 60% of the money from the wealthy quasi-districts and have it go directly to the schools in that particular quasi-district. Then, take the other 40% and put it into that same central pot that the Albany money goes to. From the poor districts, send 90% of the school tax revenue right to the neighborhood schools, and 10% to the central pot.

5.) Redistribute: Take the money you have put into that central pot and inversely redistribute it based on some pre-determined criteria (median household income? mean property value? Number of children in the district divided by total school tax revenue?) so that the poorer areas get the lion's share of the revenue-sharing money.

6.) Rebuild: Once you start having cash inflow, begin to rebuild what you had to slash earlier. Raise the teachers' salaries. Bring new technology in. Rehire the support staff, etc. Bring as many people back as you can, provided you don't create new cash-flow problems.

Long-term Impact: Here's why the economics comes in. We know oil costs aren't really going down in the long-run, so commuting costs will only get higher. Add this onto the environmental regulations on automobiles that will invariably start rolling in, and people are going to want shorter commutes to work. In addition, gentrified neighborhoods are in high demand, and many families desire to move back into the cities from the suburbs, but can't do it because of the schools. When the white, yuppie suburbanites realize that they can move back into the city, but still have primarily white, well-funded schools to go along with cheaper housing costs and still lower taxes than they were paying, they're going to start moving back in. The more people move back in, the more tax revenue comes back in, and the better funded the schools continue to be. Unless we allow incompetent administrators back in, the increased funding for the schools will continue to make the schools better. Both the wealthy quasi-districts and the poor quasi-districts will get better, as the revenue sharing will support both getting better.

Obviously, this is a broad outline without numbers. I haven't really had the time to start crunching data on costs yet, but I'm 99% sure I can make this economically viable. The question is whether I can get people to buy into it, and, as such, I need to make sure the plan is as bulletproof as possible. So, have at me.

Thoughts? Concerns? Criticisms? Outright loathing? Likes? I'm open for anything and everything.

TankRizzo · 04-30-2008, 02:51 PM

If you want to fix the school systems, first you have to fix the parents. I don't know how you go about doing that so IMO you have to fix the kids and un-do what the parents have done....or rather NOT done, which is discipline their kids, which is damn near impossible because the parents have undermined the authority of teachers because god knows their kids couldn't possibly do anything wrong.

I'd be interested to hear wickedlou's take. IIRC his wife is a teacher.

JaJae · 04-30-2008, 03:02 PM

As Tank said the way to fix those schools is through social issues. Ever seen the movie Lean On Me with Morgan Freeman? That's a true story about a highschool here in NJ. It really has very little to do with money, although money can help if used properly and there's no reason to waste it.

I think starting with the officials is the right first step. I think cutting their pay is a mistake. It's admirable that you are willing to take on the teacher's union but cutting their pay is going to a media circus and the teacher's union will shit a brick. I think rather than docking their pay a meaningless $1k a year, you should just lower their raise increases each year and reset a new income scale for new teachers. You have to be careful though or you won't be able to get any teachers willing to work with you.

Letting kids choose their schools is a patch, but then you just overcrowd the good schools and you make the bad schools even worse. The inner city schools can't fit all the kids into a few good schools. You have to make them all better, allowing the students to shift around is nice, but don't count on it for much more than a good faith gesture.

In the end if I had the ability to fix the schools I would attempt to cut the overall budget by 10-15%. With the extra money I would hire and train as many community organizers as I could.

A_C_E · 04-30-2008, 03:13 PM

JaJae, I'm not really seeing what you mean. Right now, the school districts allows students/parents to pick their schools. I want to take the right away and force students to attend neighborhood schools.

While docking teachers' pay might not be the best idea, something has to be done. The unions are sucking the budget dry. Something has to happen which can decrease the burden the teachers'/staff's unionized salaries are putting on the district. Maybe they'd be willing to sacrifice some of that money for better working conditions.

JaJae · 04-30-2008, 03:15 PM

I apologize, I misunderstood you.

And most unions do suck budgets dry, but you'll have a very hard time getting a teacher to teach in an inner state city without one when everyone else offers it. Plus you'd be hard pressed to kick the union out of the school. They're too powerful.

Lowering someone's pay is considered a huge insult. If you lower their pay your employees are not going to be motivated and you're only going to compound the problem. I would recommend lowering yearly raises to make up the difference and setting up a new pay scale.

A_C_E · 04-30-2008, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by TankRizzo

If you want to fix the school systems, first you have to fix the parents. I don't know how you go about doing that so IMO you have to fix the kids and un-do what the parents have done....or rather NOT done, which is discipline their kids, which is damn near impossible because the parents have undermined the authority of teachers because god knows their kids couldn't possibly do anything wrong.

I'd be interested to hear wickedlou's take. IIRC his wife is a teacher.

I'm not dealing in idealism here. You're not going to get single-parent inner city households involved in children's education. There has to be a tangible solution, and community organizers aren't going to be it.

More than 65% of families in the Buffalo School District are single-parent households. Getting them to PTA meetings is going to be damn near impossible, and won't deliver the kind of change we need to see. We need a massive system overhaul. It could be effective in the wealthy quasi-districts, but it's damn sure not going to work in the poor ones.

(If you guys think I could argue these points better, I could use a critique on that too)

TankRizzo · 04-30-2008, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by A_C_E

I'm not dealing in idealism here. You're not going to get single-parent inner city households involved in children's education. There has to be a tangible solution, and community organizers aren't going to be it.

More than 65% of families in the Buffalo School District are single-parent households. Getting them to PTA meetings is going to be damn near impossible, and won't deliver the kind of change we need to see. We need a massive system overhaul. It could be effective in the wealthy quasi-districts, but it's damn sure not going to work in the poor ones.

(If you guys think I could argue these points better, I could use a critique on that too)

I was thinking more along the lines of disciplinarian teachers who demand the respect and attention of their class. You'll have to start with the younger classes and slowly work up and teach them that school isn't the place for fucking off. But hey...people would no doubtedly bitch about this anyhow, so lets just skip the charade and throw more money at it which is the only solution government ever comes up with.

A_C_E · 04-30-2008, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by TankRizzo

I was thinking more along the lines of disciplinarian teachers who demand the respect and attention of their class. You'll have to start with the younger classes and slowly work up and teach them that school isn't the place for fucking off. But hey...people would no doubtedly bitch about this anyhow, so lets just skip the charade and throw more money at it which is the only solution government ever comes up with.

Hey, if that was something within my discretion to fix, I'd be more than willing. But state and federal laws forbid tough discipline, so what can we do? Hands are pretty much strapped at this point.

I do agree though, my parents sent me to Catholic schools all the way up (Jesuit high school) for the discipline, and it served me well. But that's the sort of solution that needs to come from the top, and no one at the top wants to change anything. So we're left with looking at the best of available scenarios.

I still don't see what that has to do with the fact that inner-city school are underfund and run by self-interested, incompetent morons, however.

JaJae · 04-30-2008, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by A_C_E

Hey, if that was something within my discretion to fix, I'd be more than willing. But state and federal laws forbid tough discipline, so what can we do? Hands are pretty much strapped at this point.

I do agree though, my parents sent me to Catholic schools all the way up (Jesuit high school) for the discipline, and it served me well. But that's the sort of solution that needs to come from the top, and no one at the top wants to change anything. So we're left with looking at the best of available scenarios.

I still don't see what that has to do with the fact that inner-city school are underfund and run by self-interested, incompetent morons, however.

Ban things like cell phones, music devices, portable gaming devices. Have strict punishments for not doing homework or failing exams, quizzes, etc. I don't think he's saying beat the kids with a stick or something but the schools have to take control. And inner city schools receive more funding than other schools. It's not about money. It's about the social factors that are lacking both inside and outside of the school.

TankRizzo · 04-30-2008, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

Ban things like cell phones, music devices, portable gaming devices. Have strict punishments for not doing homework or failing exams, quizzes, etc. I don't think he's saying beat the kids with a stick or something but the schools have to take control. And inner city schools receive more funding than other schools. It's not about money. It's about the social factors that are lacking both inside and outside of the school.

I don't know what exactly it would take. Having a special "disciplinary" teachers, give the current teachers additional training, more involvement from the principal and guidance counselors or what.

You can make up for lack of parental assistance w/ the school work, but not in disciplining the kids, so I guess first you need to figure out when the kids start acting out (which is probably kindergarten

) and start there. Once the teachers have lost control of a class, I'd imagine they just go through the motions, become jaded and everyone suffers. If they got some sort of help and backup/re-assurance, I think that would do a lot to improve conditions. Some kids will need more specialized/personalized training. I don't know, there are just so many things, where do you start?

7960 · 04-30-2008, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by A_C_E

Ok, here's a little background. I was reading a Buffalo blog yesterday which was mentioning how badly the overall school performance was in the Buffalo Public Schools, and referenced data which showed that graduation rates were less than 60% at most city school districts in major cities (Kansas City, Indianapolis, Portland, Pittsburgh were some of the more surprising inclusions). So I started to think about ways in which to fix urban school districts and make these areas appealing again to families which have fled to the suburbs because of the schools. Following is a rough outline of what I came up with, and I'm interested in your feedback. I've gotten positive thoughts from a number of people so far, and if enough people think it's viable, I might pitch this idea to some people back home over the summer. This setup is not exclusive to Buffalo, but I'm using it as an example since it's the city I know best. Here goes:

Background Info: In the Buffalo City school district, there is a hybrid neighborhood/city-wide plan in place. Parents can choose to send their children to the neighborhood elementary/secondary schools, and transportation will be provided for them. They can also send their kids to any other school within the city, but the parents are responsible for transport. There is one very good elementary (Olmsted 54) and one very good middle (Olmsted 56) school, and two good high schools that require students to "test" into (Hutchinson Technical and City Honors). Basically every other school is crap. At this point in time, most of the school budget per students comes from Albany, with only a small amount coming from local school taxes.

The Plan:

1.) Slash-and-Burn: This is going to be the hardest thing to accomplish and is going to need to be done with manipulation, force, and some outright Karl Rove-style tactics. Basically, I would need to clean out the school board/district administrators. Fire half of the employees, starting with the most incompetent and corrupt ones (there are many). Then, take a hard line with the Unions, risking strikes, bad publicity, whatever. I'll hire non-union temps if necessary.

For your feedback I could have stopped reading right here. You will never accomplish this.

Then, I'm going to need to do an across-the-board reduction in salary--for teachers, janitors, principals, lunch ladies, you name it. Nothing dramatic, a thousand per year perhaps. The teachers in buffalo are already the second-highest paid, on average, in America, with a cost-of-living adjusted average salary around $55,000/yr and a high of $101,000/yr. Anything that can possibly be cut without unduly burdening the students need to be cut.

Or this.

Thoughts? Concerns? Criticisms? Outright loathing? Likes? I'm open for anything and everything.

The rest sounds neat, but if it depends on what you wrote above you're in for a fight for the rest of your life. It's like starting a project with "So I'm going to hit Powerball, then I'll ..........." If the entire plan starts with an impossibility then is it worth discussing the rest?

7960 · 04-30-2008, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by TankRizzo

If you want to fix the school systems, first you have to fix the parents. I don't know how you go about doing that so IMO you have to fix the kids and un-do what the parents have done....or rather NOT done, which is discipline their kids, which is damn near impossible because the parents have undermined the authority of teachers because god knows their kids couldn't possibly do anything wrong.

If you were a parent when I taught I would have kissed you.........probably been fired for it, but it would be worth it.

I'd have parents undermine my authority with me right there and not think anything of it. This girl cindy used to wear totally inappropriate stuff to school (*WAY* too small for a girl of her........girth). So we're in the office calling her mom again and she shows up and says to her "If they tell you what you're wearing is inappropriate, take it off" and then walked out.

So there's the principal and me and this girl who just got the message that what we say means shit. And don't get me started on parents who used to argue with me about what was on the tests, and how their kid got 10 wrong on a 20 question quiz but he somehow still deserved to pass.

kinggovernor · 04-30-2008, 07:23 PM

you plan will fail for many reasons but segregating the kids is something the courts don't like, which is why busing was started in the first place.

A_C_E · 04-30-2008, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

you plan will fail for many reasons but segregating the kids is something the courts don't like, which is why busing was started in the first place.

It's not like they aren't de facto segregated already. All I'm really doing is forcing students to go to neighborhood schools.

Name other reasons the plan is fail?

kinggovernor · 04-30-2008, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by A_C_E

It's not like they aren't de facto segregated already. All I'm really doing is forcing students to go to neighborhood schools.

Name other reasons the plan is fail?

which is why busing was ordered.

you are going after unions in New York State? Instant fail, they run our great state. And then you want to use scabs in schools, you would be run out of town.

Where would you draw up your districts? You are going to force "wealthy" district residents to send 40% of their school tax dollars to subsidize the "poor" district? No thanks, I will just live in Amherst or send my kids to parochial schools. Gentrified neighborhoods are NOT popular in Buffalo.

The other problem with owning a home in Buffalo (other than the schools) is that all it takes is 1-2 houses on your block to turn to shit. Then your block has a crime problem and your house value plummets. Just look at what has happened to the West Side in the last 5-10 years.

The problem I think you are trying to address is that the "winners" in society are moving further and further away from the "losers" in society. Just look at the problems Cheektowaga is having with foreclosures and vacancy. I don't think you will ever be able to force winners to live losers, no matter what the government tries to do.

A_C_E · 04-30-2008, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

which is why busing was ordered.

Yea, I know that. But school districts were never allowed/required to bus across district lines into other areas. By creating new districts, I get around this problem. What can the Courts say? If I create new districts, but don't change the racial makeup of the schools at all....what is different?

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

you are going after unions in New York State? Instant fail, they run our great state. And then you want to use scabs in schools, you would be run out of town.

Indeed, going after the unions in New York is asking for trouble. But somebody has to do it, before they suck the entire state dry. The schools are as good a place as any to start.

If a coalition of the most intelligent, wealthiest, and most well-connected people/families can't take down the unions, then who can? I want to know the situation is hopeless before I would refuse to act. If it ends up that it is indeed hopeless, well.....I guess everyone will know it's time to leave.

As far as using scabs in schools, it's a short-term scenario to use to bust the unions. It would just be a necessity, but it would be a short-term thing: just until you showed it was working and the unions bought back in, or until they started going broke.

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

Where would you draw up your districts? You are going to force "wealthy" district residents to send 40% of their school tax dollars to subsidize the "poor" district? No thanks, I will just live in Amherst or send my kids to parochial schools. Gentrified neighborhoods are NOT popular in Buffalo.

I hadn't looked at the actual map yet, but I'd look for something that included the North side + Delaware District, South Buffalo, East and West sides as the four districts. Revenue-sharing and redistribution is a good plan, I think. I'm willing to bet more people would move in then out once parents realized their little princes and princesses would be going to mostly-white, well-funded schools with lower property taxes and cheaper housing costs for bigger square footage.[/quote]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

The other problem with owning a home in Buffalo (other than the schools) is that all it takes is 1-2 houses on your block to turn to shit. Then your block has a crime problem and your house value plummets. Just look at what has happened to the West Side in the last 5-10 years.

There's nothing that anyone can do about this in any major city in America. You can't fix everything.

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

The problem I think you are trying to address is that the "winners" in society are moving further and further away from the "losers" in society. Just look at the problems Cheektowaga is having with foreclosures and vacancy. I don't think you will ever be able to force winners to live losers, no matter what the government tries to do.

An effort has to be made, I think. Yes, you are right, the "winners" move away from the "losers", but sooner or later the flight becomes unsustainable and cities like Buffalo/Cleveland/Indianapolis collapse. This is a start. It's not perfect, but it's a start.

kinggovernor · 04-30-2008, 11:26 PM

Originally Posted by A_C_E

Yea, I know that. But school districts were never allowed/required to bus across district lines into other areas. By creating new districts, I get around this problem. What can the Courts say? If I create new districts, but don't change the racial makeup of the schools at all....what is different?

they weren't allowed because the SC said so. I don't see a problem with redistricting inside the city though.

Indeed, going after the unions in New York is asking for trouble. But somebody has to do it, before they suck the entire state dry. The schools are as good a place as any to start.

they sucked the state dry years ago.

If a coalition of the most intelligent, wealthiest, and most well-connected people/families can't take down the unions, then who can? I want to know the situation is hopeless before I would refuse to act. If it ends up that it is indeed hopeless, well.....I guess everyone will know it's time to leave.

New York is a union blue state, the most connected politicians depend on unions for support. We have run by one party, and even when the occasion republican gets elected they are not conservatives.

As far as using scabs in schools, it's a short-term scenario to use to bust the unions. It would just be a necessity, but it would be a short-term thing: just until you showed it was working and the unions bought back in, or until they started going broke.

that would never, ever, ever fly. Never in a million years.

I hadn't looked at the actual map yet, but I'd look f