GI Bill 2008

kinggovernor · 05-05-2008, 03:01 PM

GI Bill 2008 - Home

The current educational benefits offered to veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan are much lower than the original GI Bill.
o Today, after contributing a nonrefundable contribution from their first military paychecks, troops can receive a total of about $39,600 towards their education.
o Unfortunately, this covers only 60-70% of the average cost of four years at a public college or university, or less than two years at a typical private college.
o National Guardsmen and Reservists, including those who have served multiple combat tours, only receive a fraction of the benefits offered to active-duty service members.
o There are also considerable delays in receiving benefits; more than 118,000 VA education claims are waiting to be processed.
o Although 95% of veterans pay a nonrefundable $1,200 contribution, only 8% of veterans use their whole benefit and 30% of veterans don’t use their GI Bill at all. These veterans have contributed $230 million to the national treasury, but received nothing in return.
o About 300,000 Iraq and Afghanistan veterans have used some part of their GI Bill.

YouTube Video

Lou Dobbs: Vets say they feel misled about GI benefits - CNN.com

IAVA is a group that I joined a few months ago and I look forward to working with them when I move down to DC in a few months. I currently use the GI Bill to pay for rent have taken out nearly $70 thousand in loans to pay for my education. Please contact your House Representatives and Senators in support of the GI Bill 2008. Thanks.

thewise1 · 05-06-2008, 12:43 PM

Just out of curiosity, what does $70k get you in terms of a study program and degree?

A_C_E · 05-06-2008, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by thewise1

Just out of curiosity, what does $70k get you in terms of a study program and degree?

Two years at a low-tier private school to finish a degree; would leave you a bit shy of a bachelor's degree at a public university out-of-state (around $82,000); you could go to school in-state at a public university and have more than enough for a bachelor's.

Top-tier private university goes for almost $50,000/year nowadays.

thewise1 · 05-06-2008, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by A_C_E

Two years at a low-tier private school to finish a degree; would leave you a bit shy of a bachelor's degree at a public university out-of-state (around $82,000); you could go to school in-state at a public university and have more than enough for a bachelor's.

Top-tier private university goes for almost $50,000/year nowadays.

Guess I got a steal of a deal

DosEquis · 05-06-2008, 05:03 PM

Just for the sake of debating the thread topic i will play a little devils advocate of sorts.

Soldiers...federal employees...signed a contract with the government with a specified benefits and such. After the fact we are trying to negotiate for a better deal? This sounds strikingly similar to something that another *cough* group would do in negotiating for more benefits from their employer. Last time I checked their employer (US Govt) was running a debt of 9.4 trillion and running in the red for like...the last 30 years. The free market seems to have laid out what it takes with pay and benefits to get employees to sign on. Why the sudden change of heart? It was good enough when they applied for the job. We most certainly sent them to war, but they also signed up knowing it was part of the job. The market doesn't seem to agree that if we send them to war, we must pay for all their school too.

kombayn · 05-06-2008, 05:12 PM

The market doesn't seem to agree that if we send them to war, we must pay for all their school too.

Anyone who puts their life on the line to defend our country and my rights as a U.S. citizen, not only deserve free schooling but I have no problem giving up part of my tax dollars to ensure they get a proper education. These troops whether what they're doing is right or wrong put their body in front of great violence deserve special treatment. Because it protects me from having that be my body put on the line.

thewise1 · 05-06-2008, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by kombayn

Anyone who puts their life on the line to defend our country and my rights as a U.S. citizen, not only deserve free schooling but I have no problem giving up part of my tax dollars to ensure they get a proper education. These troops whether what they're doing is right or wrong put their body in front of great violence deserve special treatment. Because it protects me from having that be my body put on the line.

I'm not sure I agree with that... completely.

If they are defending our soil against foreign invaders... I agree.

If they are off fighting in foreign wars of aggression... I'm not sure that I do agree. But maybe this is for a separate thread.

DosEquis · 05-06-2008, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by kombayn

Anyone who puts their life on the line to defend our country and my rights as a U.S. citizen, not only deserve free schooling but I have no problem giving up part of my tax dollars to ensure they get a proper education. These troops whether what they're doing is right or wrong put their body in front of great violence deserve special treatment. Because it protects me from having that be my body put on the line.

Thats fine, but why don't they specify that before they sign up? If they feel they should get a full ride when their service is up, and the military is not offering a full ride, then they can simply not sign up. The govt would then have to increase benefits to get them to volunteer.

Friend of mine went in to the navy right out of highscool (hes 2 yrs younger than me). He gets paid about 38k now, not including things like his decent bonus for signing up for an addition term of service. How many other employers will give up to $40,000 towards tuition on top of a decent salary like that?

I understand completely what you are saying, but when you put it in that context, there is really no adequate amount that you could pay someone.

kombayn · 05-06-2008, 06:00 PM

I agree as well. Even if they are the aggressors in the foreign war, they feel what they are doing is right and it prevents a draft. I just give high regards to the men and women who serve and place their bodies on the line staring down death everyday.

thewise1 · 05-06-2008, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by kombayn

I agree as well. Even if they are the aggressors in the foreign war, they feel what they are doing is right and it prevents a draft. I just give high regards to the men and women who serve and place their bodies on the line staring down death everyday.

Preventing a draft is not a good thing on a macro level. If there were a draft over this Iraq business, the outcry would cause appropriate action to be taken; As it is, we can continue giving lip service to 'the troops' (even though we're 'supporting' them by putting them in harms way for little or no profit as a nation) but without having to serve ourselves.

A draft would force people to put their money where their mouth is, as it were.

JaJae · 05-06-2008, 06:27 PM

I see both sides to this. $40k is just about enough to cover the costs of tuition. Could you also go to community college your first two years? I think the GI Bill pays for that. That would reduce costs dramatically.
Rutgers - Tuition and Fees
Ohio State - Tuition and Fees

They knew what they were going to get when they signed up. Some applicants may be eligible for the college fun depending on branch and mos.

Average tuition and fees at four-year public colleges rose 6.6 percent this year, again outstripping increases in financial aid and pushing students into more borrowing. Community colleges once again did the best job keeping the lid on prices.

In-state students at four-year public schools are paying $6,185 this year, up $381 from last year, according to the nonprofit College Board's annual survey of college costs, released Monday. At four-year private colleges, tuition and fees rose 6.3 percent to $23,712.

College tuition still rising - School Inc. - MSNBC.com

The GI Bill is enough to cover the average public school tuition in the US. However, the payments made within the GI Bill should be tied to the market. People enlist in the military 4 years ago and then there's a huge upswing in costs when it's time for them to attend. I wouldn't mind making up for that.

DosEquis · 05-06-2008, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

The GI Bill is enough to cover the average public school tuition in the US. However, the payments made within the GI Bill should be tied to the market. People enlist in the military 4 years ago and then there's a huge upswing in costs when it's time for them to attend. I wouldn't mind making up for that.

I would agree with that too.

thewise1 · 05-06-2008, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

College tuition still rising - School Inc. - MSNBC.com

The GI Bill is enough to cover the average public school tuition in the US. However, the payments made within the GI Bill should be tied to the market. People enlist in the military 4 years ago and then there's a huge upswing in costs when it's time for them to attend. I wouldn't mind making up for that.

I'd be ok with that for sure.

kinggovernor · 05-06-2008, 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by DosEquis

Just for the sake of debating the thread topic i will play a little devils advocate of sorts.

Soldiers...federal employees...signed a contract with the government with a specified benefits and such. After the fact we are trying to negotiate for a better deal? This sounds strikingly similar to something that another *cough* group would do in negotiating for more benefits from their employer. Last time I checked their employer (US Govt) was running a debt of 9.4 trillion and running in the red for like...the last 30 years. The free market seems to have laid out what it takes with pay and benefits to get employees to sign on. Why the sudden change of heart? It was good enough when they applied for the job. We most certainly sent them to war, but they also signed up knowing it was part of the job. The market doesn't seem to agree that if we send them to war, we must pay for all their school too.

You are forgetting an important part of this, the history this country has of taking care of its veterans. Throughout our history when service members are called into wartime service, the levels of pay and service has risen.

I assume you were talking about unions when you mentioned another group? Going to war is no where near comparable to making cars and to try to make a comparison is laughable. Military service is not like any other job on the planet, it is not part of the "free market".

I didn't sign up for the Marine Corps for the money, you can make more at McDonald's. We, as the military, have performed an extraordinary service since 9/11 and we deserve the type of benefits of other veterans that performed an extraordinary service like in WWII.

kinggovernor · 05-06-2008, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by thewise1

I'm not sure I agree with that... completely.

If they are defending our soil against foreign invaders... I agree.

If they are off fighting in foreign wars of aggression... I'm not sure that I do agree. But maybe this is for a separate thread.

Their's not to reason why,
Their's but to do and die
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

The Charge of the Light Brigade
-Lord Tennyson Alfred

kinggovernor · 05-06-2008, 11:37 PM

Originally Posted by DosEquis

Thats fine, but why don't they specify that before they sign up? If they feel they should get a full ride when their service is up, and the military is not offering a full ride, then they can simply not sign up. The govt would then have to increase benefits to get them to volunteer.

Friend of mine went in to the navy right out of highscool (hes 2 yrs younger than me). He gets paid about 38k now, not including things like his decent bonus for signing up for an addition term of service. How many other employers will give up to $40,000 towards tuition on top of a decent salary like that?

I understand completely what you are saying, but when you put it in that context, there is really no adequate amount that you could pay someone.

How many employers order you to fight to the death for them? Comparing the military to the private sector does not work.

kinggovernor · 05-06-2008, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

I see both sides to this. $40k is just about enough to cover the costs of tuition. Could you also go to community college your first two years? I think the GI Bill pays for that. That would reduce costs dramatically.
Rutgers - Tuition and Fees
Ohio State - Tuition and Fees

They knew what they were going to get when they signed up. Some applicants may be eligible for the college fun depending on branch and mos.

College tuition still rising - School Inc. - MSNBC.com

The GI Bill is enough to cover the average public school tuition in the US. However, the payments made within the GI Bill should be tied to the market. People enlist in the military 4 years ago and then there's a huge upswing in costs when it's time for them to attend. I wouldn't mind making up for that.

The WWII GI Bill offered veterans the option to go to any school that they could get into, including Havard:
But World War II brought landmark legislation that fundamentally changed the university experience — for the school and for its new students. This was the GI Bill. Many young men during World War II became Harvard students because of the GI Bill officer training programs. (Actor Jack Lemmon was one of these servicemen.)

The GI Bill allowed thousands of people to attend colleges or vocational schools across the country. Access to higher education was no longer largely confined to people with a specific financial or social standing. Gender and racial boundaries were breached. It also brought a new type of student to Harvard — men who were older who had lived through the Depression and the experience of war. Thomson, as an undergraduate and graduate student, and, later, Sears at the Law School, took advantage of the GI Bill.

Thomson looked back at Harvard during World War II: “As a scholarship student in my freshman year, Harvard offered numerous flexible work opportunities within the University to help such students financially. One of my jobs was as an early morning librarian for a course given to military officers to train them in military governance of soon-to-be occupied Japan. It was a classified job.

“Harvard academic officials were very generous to students leaving for military service and those veterans returning,” Thomson continued. “As a civilian freshman entering in July 1944, Harvard gave me full credit for my second unfinished term when I entered the Navy in January 1945. They also promised a space upon my return. In a similar fashion, when I returned as a veteran in September 1946, I was given a full-term college credit for a substantial Naval electronic course I completed in the Navy. These official acts of generosity helped me along my academic path.”

Lee noted that at that time, “Yale was described as having more collegiality where Harvard had more individuality. Harvard students usually got to know the people in their Houses the best. There would be House dramatics or athletics such as squash. The coming of the students with the GI Bill changed Harvard. Prior to the war, students could easily stay in the same circle of friends they knew all their lives.” Lee also pointed out that “the great masses coming after the war were unusually mature. Another significant difference is the substantially increased numbers of foreign students. There were always some of course, but not nearly as many foreigners as Harvard has today. All of these things improve the quality of education.”

Personal glimpses into Harvard history — The Harvard University Gazette

A_C_E · 05-07-2008, 12:26 AM

As I see it, service should entitle you to have a four-year degree paid for at a public university. To say that the military should shell out $200,000 for a private education at a top school is ludicrous, IMO.

kinggovernor · 05-07-2008, 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by A_C_E

As I see it, service should entitle you to have a four-year degree paid for at a public university. To say that the military should shell out $200,000 for a private education at a top school is ludicrous, IMO.

they have in the past and they do for ROTC students. You can take your ROTC scholarship to a local state school or you can take it to Havard. And its not like it would actually got the government $200,000.

A_C_E · 05-07-2008, 01:12 AM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

they have in the past and they do for ROTC students. You can take your ROTC scholarship to a local state school or you can take it to Havard. And its not like it would actually got the government $200,000.

But you can't really compare ROTC to education post-enlistment