car advice

[motivez]

So is RWD out of the question?

I forgot about the 525xi, all wheel drive

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by 7960

I don't know how to talk to you.

To me, mileage is an economic issue. Maybe it's not that way for you. All I'm saying is that if mileage is an economic issue (like it is for me), then what's the difference between $2.2k/year in gas (which is what I pay with my commute and my car) and $4.5k/year in gas (what I would pay driving your SUV with my commute) when you're willing to spend $20k more on a car (over just a regular mid-class sedan)? Are you just picking and choosing what you do and don't want to pay for?

Maybe for you it's not an economic issue. Maybe it's saving the Earth or reducing your carbon footprint or whatever.

Gas mileage is a concern for people who can't afford gas (or whose expenditures in gas tightens their wallets). It's a concern for me because I don't feel I can afford $4k/year in gas (I probably CAN, but my willingness to pay is below that level). People who can't afford gas can't afford luxury cars. If you're buying her a luxury car, you can afford gas no matter what the mileage is.

Therefore, mileage isn't a REAL concern. Again, unless it has some value to you other than economics.

[motivez]

Why can't he want the best of both worlds?

[A_C_E]

In your price range, a Lexus ES350 is the best you're possibly going to get. They're GREAT cars. Stylish, luxurious, professional, whatever you want to call it. Plus, Lexus servicing is amazing as is the build quality.

My mom has a 1995 ES300 with 162,000 miles on it, and it still runs like the day it was driven off the lot. It gets me recommendation over a Beamer, which I've found to have frequent problems.

[7960]

Originally Posted by motivez

So is RWD out of the question?

with modern traction control, RWD isn't entirely out of the question.

I forgot about the 525xi, all wheel drive

I keep hearing that the 525 is way underpowered. No?

[A_C_E]

Originally Posted by 7960

with modern traction control, RWD isn't entirely out of the question.

I keep hearing that the 525 is way underpowered. No?

You're all over the map here. Do you want a performance-class car or a luxury-class car?

A Lexus LS430 and an Acura TL are very different types of vehicles.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

what's the difference between $2.2k/year in gas and $4.5k/year in gas

Is this a trick question?

The answer is $2,300/year, $191/month, or $45/wk. Is $45/wk insignificant to you? It's not to me.

Are you just picking and choosing what you do and don't want to pay for?

4th time, YES. Since I'm in the market for a new car why not get one that also gets decent mileage?

Maybe for you it's not an economic issue. Maybe it's saving the Earth or reducing your carbon footprint or whatever.

I don't give a shit about carbon footprint. I think it's a bullshit notion to begin with. But (6th time) if I'm in the market for a car why not get one that also gets decent mileage?

Gas mileage is a concern for people who can't afford gas...

Bullshit.

If you're buying her a luxury car, you can afford gas no matter what the mileage is.

Again, bullshit. $45/wk is significant, especially considering I budget myself to $60/wk for gas, lunches, and fun shit.

Therefore, mileage isn't a REAL concern. Again, unless it has some value to you other than economics.

Bullshit (3rd time). Economics is the main reason I want a car that gets decent mileage. Like YOU pointed out it equates to $45/wk.

Just because I can afford a $350 payment doesn't mean I can (or want to) afford a $400 payment. Otherwise the argument "since you can afford a $400 payment then you can afford a $450 payment" is true, and then it's $500, then $550, then $600...............

[7960]

Originally Posted by A_C_E

You're all over the map here. Do you want a performance-class car or a luxury-class car?

A Lexus LS430 and an Acura TL are very different types of vehicles.

I'm looking for suggestions that fit:

- no preference for foreign or domestic
- 4-doors
- should comfortably seat 4 adults
- should fit 3 kids under 12 years old in the back seat
- decent mileage (25+ highway)
- should be used but "certified" (not all manufacturers do that)
- should be newer (2006+, possibly 2005 depending on specifics)

I've never seen a 430 or a TL so I have no idea which is what or even the difference between performance / luxury. I'm going to read more about each as people post ideas.


cliffs:

Q: Do you want a performance-class car or a luxury-class car?
A: I have no fucking clue. Which is more "professional"?

[A_C_E]

You want to go luxury-class. Acura's are know for having more zip, and lower fuel economy--though they have Honda build quality, which is neck-and-neck with Lexus/Toyota for the most reliable cars on the road. It's a better "fun car" than a "professional car." Your comment about the 525xi being underpowered kind of swayed me a little bit--normally people don't talk about cars being underpowered if they're not concerned with power to being with, you know?

Anyway, I think you should be looking at:

Lexus ES350
Lexus GS300
Infiniti M35 (fuel economy isn't great on this one)
Infiniti Q45 (same mileage issues, only 25mpg ish)
Nissan Altima Hybrid (beautiful car, gets great fuel economy)
Acura TL
Any BMW 5-series (525, 530, 545)
Audi A6
Cadillac CTS
Mercedes-Benz C320/C350 (prepate for ridiculous upkeep costs)

Those are what I would consider "professional."

[7960]

Originally Posted by A_C_E

Your comment about the 525xi being underpowered kind of swayed me a little bit--normally people don't talk about cars being underpowered if they're not concerned with power to being with, you know?

My maxima gets 31+ mpg on the highway but also pulled a 14.45s at grudge night. That's not bad for a 4-door dadmobile.

Anyway, I think you should be looking at:

Lexus ES350
Lexus GS300
Infiniti M35 (fuel economy isn't great on this one)
Infiniti Q45 (same mileage issues, only 25mpg ish)
Nissan Altima Hybrid (beautiful car, gets great fuel economy)
Acura TL
Any BMW 5-series (525, 530, 545)
Audi A6
Cadillac CTS
Mercedes-Benz C320/C350 (prepate for ridiculous upkeep costs)

Those are what I would consider "professional."

thanks!

A friend has an A8. Is the A6 just a smaller version of that?

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by motivez

Why can't he want the best of both worlds?

This question doesn't even make sense. The best of both worlds of what? Spending a shit ton of money and saving money?

No, you cannot spend a shit ton of money AND save money. I'm pretty sure that's impossible.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

This question doesn't even make sense. The best of both worlds of what? Spending a shit ton of money and saving money?

No, you cannot spend a shit ton of money AND save money. I'm pretty sure that's impossible.

And the problems are

- you think $35k is a shitton of money for a car.
- you think just because I can afford a $350 payment for a car that I can also afford (or want to afford) a $400 payment.

I just don't understand this. He asked for my budget and I said $35k, not $37k with a $2k recurring cost every year.

[Ardentfrost]

$350/month? Are you leasing?

And the cost of a car includes the gas and maintenance. If you can afford $35k at 26 mpg but can't afford $35k at 20 mpg, that's just retarded. I could see that at a lower priced car.

Although, when you were first talking, I thought you were in the 45-50k range. I was thinking "Acura RL" not "Acura TL." There is a big difference there.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

$350/month? Are you leasing?

I'll be buying the car outright. The "payment" goes to my bank account to save for the next car.

And the cost of a car includes the gas and maintenance.

ANY car cost includes gas and maintenance. I can't understand why you think "if you can afford this then you can afford that." When you bought your $17k car what would you have said if someone said "if you can afford a $17 car then you can afford a $19k car and an extra $1000/year for every year you own it"?

If you can afford $35k at 26 mpg but can't afford $35k at 20 mpg, that's just retarded. I could see that at a lower priced car.

This makes no sense.

Next time we go to lunch when you tell me "I have enough money for a hamburger" I'm going to say "oh, then you have enough for a steak!" Does that make sense?

[WickedLou9]

I made a spreadsheet if you want it

You put in cost to buy, cost to insure, average maintenance cost, the MPG that the car gets and how much gas costs and it will give you a bottom line for each car.

yeah I am a dork. Maybe I'll write up a VB app that does it as well.

OK Shoot me.

BY the way, I think the ES350 is probably your best option. You can get a newer one than if you bought an LS430. It will do better on fuel and it just as professional looking. Both are essentially toyotas so they will be reliable.

[WickedLou9]

I just reviewded the Consumer rpts website.

Stay away from the Bimmer. It has blotchy reliability history. It's not terrible, but the Lexus is stellar. I see no reason to get a BMW unless you are interested in the badge and it's image. Even so, lexus is comperable in image.

AUdi A6? Audi = VW = it's going to fall apart after 3 years. Never buy a used Audi or VW. Lease for 3 years OK. I wouldnt ever buy one. The reliability history is full of the little black circles.

Caddy is good, but under the catagory of "Drive System" it is a striaght line of black marks. Plus the depreciation is terrible.

The Lexus is going to be your best bet. I don't really see any other choice to be honest.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by 7960

with modern traction control, RWD isn't entirely out of the question.

I keep hearing that the 525 is way underpowered. No?

Depends on your need for power really, if your wife is driving it, she's not going to be racing people.. and if it's to work and back, she's not going to need a 300+bhp car.

I think the 525 has a 3.0L engine in 2005+, let me check..

Yeah:

525i - Under powered? [Archive] - bimmerfest - BMW Forums

I mean, you could always move up to a 530 or 535, both would definitely give you more power on the highway, but you'll pay a bit more (though not really anything significant)

Gas Mileage of 2006 Vehicles by BMW (Estimates are IMO conservative)

[7960]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

I just reviewded the Consumer rpts website.

Stay away from the Bimmer. It has blotchy reliability history. It's not terrible, but the Lexus is stellar. I see no reason to get a BMW unless you are interested in the badge and it's image. Even so, lexus is comperable in image.

I'd buy a bmw if it was the right car. I woudln't buy it so I could tell people I drive a bmw.

AUdi A6? Audi = VW = it's going to fall apart after 3 years. Never buy a used Audi or VW. Lease for 3 years OK. I wouldnt ever buy one. The reliability history is full of the little black circles.

My sister has had two VWs for years and they were both reliable.

The Lexus is going to be your best bet. I don't really see any other choice to be honest.

I'll check that out, thanks

[A_C_E]

Originally Posted by 7960

A friend has an A8. Is the A6 just a smaller version of that?

Yep.

[A_C_E]

I agree with Lou, by the way. The Lexus is definitely your best bet.

The ES350 gets a bit better mileage and is a little cheaper, but if you want something you can drive too which is fun you'll love the GS300. Every bit as "professional" but more of a driver's car.