Limbaugh's Fat Mouth Opens Yet Again...

[Scrum]

How is McCain's policy on Iraq different than Bush's? We stay until we "win" is what they have both been saying.

[TankRizzo]

Originally Posted by Scrum

How is McCain's policy on Iraq different than Bush's? We stay until we "win" is what they have both been saying.

Strategy in Iraq is a tad more complicated than "stay or go", and quite frankly I find it hard to believe either of the Dems will be able to live up to their promises of withdraw.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by TankRizzo

Strategy in Iraq is a tad more complicated than "stay or go", and quite frankly I find it hard to believe either of the Dems will be able to live up to their promises of withdraw.

Great, it's more complicated.

How is his policy different? What is he going to accomplish that Bush couldn't?


And as far as the Dems plans to withdraw, why don't you think they will live up to it? If they want it, congress wants it and the people want it, there shouldn't be a problem. It's time for the Iraqi's to start taking responsibility for their country.

[TankRizzo]

Originally Posted by Scrum

Great, it's more complicated.

How is his policy different? What is he going to accomplish that Bush couldn't?


And as far as the Dems plans to withdraw, why don't you think they will live up to it? If they want it, congress wants it and the people want it, there shouldn't be a problem. It's time for the Iraqi's to start taking responsibility for their country.

The situation is a bit more complex and the knee jerk reaction to pull out isn't well thought out, nor practical. It's one thing to want the Iraqis to stand on their own, it's another to pull out and watch a power vacuum happen that will most likely include genocide and a nasty civil war that could potentially fuck up oil flow.

McCain and Bush differ fundamentally on how to handle things over there and he would put more emphasis on what the generals suggest, and quite frankly he has far more credibility on the situation than either of the Dems.

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by Scrum

How is McCain's policy on Iraq different than Bush's? We stay until we "win" is what they have both been saying.

less Rumsfeld and more General Petraeus.

[JaJae]

I think a lot of people are a little overconfident in the Democratic proposals for Iraq.

Hillary:
Remember she supported the war for a long time and refused to say it was the wrong move for even longer. It is my belief that she did this because she had plans of running for President that date all the way back to when Bill was in the White House. It is why she attained her seat in NY and it is why she is running so soon. She tried using Iraq to portray herself as more moderate for the general election. She assumed she could backtrack her support a little on Iraq and walk through the Democratic nomination process as if she was entitled to the candidacy. It wasn't until Obama started pounding her in delegates and the popular vote that she realized she had to backtrack even further. She is now saying she is going to pull all troops out unconditionally of time factors or circumstances in Iraq. The reality is she's had more stances on Iraq than John McCain.

Obama:
He was against the war from the start. But he is by no means afraid of military conflict. He has said if he has actionable intelligence he would act on it if it meant bombing sovereign nations. He also says he wants to bring troops home, but in response to questions regarding what would happen to the Iraqis he refuses to say he bring home troops regardless of their fate. He consistently says he would review the situation and react as he felt was the best course of action. He is not for an unconditional withdrawal. If things go bad in Iraq due to our withdrawal (as most people think would happen) he may end up leaving troops there. He's made that clear. He's basically said we gotta trust his judgment over the judgment of the people who started the war.

Summary: Hillary Clinton is saying whatever she thinks she needs to say to get elected. That's it. Her word is garbage. Obama hasn't promised an unconditional withdrawal of troops.

[IminWonderland]

Originally Posted by TankRizzo

Because dishonest and untrustworthy democrats will tax the hell out of us. Also, McCain has been clear all along that his policy on Iraq is very different from what Bush has done.

Dems are trying their damndest to make the case that McCain = 4 more years of Bush, but I just don't see it. He's made nice with bush to get into the position he's in now, but I don't see that as an indication that he's all of a sudden changed into a neocon.

The verbage he uses to describe war, conflict, and his own perception of his potential role are an EXACT echo if Bush.

So, if I have to choose between WORLD WAR and high taxes to fix the problems that our own Country is facing, I think I'm gonna have to go with...

taxes

[7960]

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

The verbage he uses to describe war, conflict, and his own perception of his potential role are an EXACT echo if Bush.

show me.

[kombayn]

Originally Posted by TankRizzo

The situation is a bit more complex and the knee jerk reaction to pull out isn't well thought out, nor practical. It's one thing to want the Iraqis to stand on their own, it's another to pull out and watch a power vacuum happen that will most likely include genocide and a nasty civil war that could potentially fuck up oil flow.

McCain and Bush differ fundamentally on how to handle things over there and he would put more emphasis on what the generals suggest, and quite frankly he has far more credibility on the situation than either of the Dems.

Even if the troops stay, it can still fuck up the flow of oil. I can't get into the war one more time, I've already said my piece on the whole situation and I'm very anti-war with any country.

[nbiggershaft]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

But why? Obama and Clinton are not that far apart policy wise. They agree on most things. McCain is the opposite of Clinton. Would you just be voting out of spite for your candidate not winning the primary? It makes no logical sense to support Clinton and then switch to McCain.

I don't think Obama will do a good job as president. It's not as if I am just voting in an agenda, I am picking someone to do a job. Plus as I have said before, Obama wants to basically kill manned spaceflight and cut NASA's budget.

[IminWonderland]

Originally Posted by 7960

show me.

No. Pay attention to the cowboy/mavrick archetype they sell themselves with.

I don't want a fighter, I want a thinker.

[7960]

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

No. Pay attention to the cowboy/mavrick archetype they sell themselves with.

No.

If you're going to tell me someone is "an EXACT echo if (sic)" someone else then prove it.

[IminWonderland]

Originally Posted by 7960

No.

If you're going to tell me someone is "an EXACT echo if (sic)" someone else then prove it.

If it's an echo, then it's not the original message.

And I am talking about the rhetoric and archetype that these two people have in common.

Everyone else in the world pretty much thinks that our government is a big bully that drains the weak for its own interests, and now we are reaping that fruit of a shameful foreign policy.

These guys, Bush, McCain, Cheney, Rumsfield, and all the other military people who manufactured consent for this war all have the same archetypal cowboy savior complex that is self righteous, arrogant, and ignorant.

If you think I am saying that McCain literally says Bushs's lines, that is not what I am saying, and you are yet again trying to emphasize a minute detail of a post, without regarding the actual issue that I am speaking to.

[7960]

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

If it's an echo, then it's not the original message.

You're saying he echoes bush's message. I'm asking you to show me.

Everyone else in the world.........

Everyone else in this world also appreciates it when people back up their claims that "everyone else in this world" thinks something.

If you think I am saying that McCain literally says Bushs's lines, that is not what I am saying, and you are yet again trying to emphasize a minute detail of a post, without regarding the actual issue that I am speaking to.

Nice! You say something, I ask you to post some links verifying or demonstrating what you said, and you dismiss me by saying I'm ignoring the actual message even though what I'm asking about is the core of your belief.

Even though you're benefiting from the freedom of one fought before you were born, I know you hate war. Let's assume that isn't coloring your judgment at all (I know, ) and try to get some info, ok? McCain's position has not echoed bush's. There are some similarities but there are also some huge gaps between what they think we should be doing and what we should do in the future.

We're on 4 posts back and forth now.......how about you show me where mccain "echoes bush" in his beliefs so we can wrap this up.

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

These guys, Bush, McCain, Cheney, Rumsfield, and all the other military people who manufactured consent for this war all have the same archetypal cowboy savior complex that is self righteous, arrogant, and ignorant.

NBC, MSNBC and news services
updated 11:41 a.m. ET, Wed., Dec. 15, 2004
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has come under attack from Republican Sen. John McCain and retired Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf over his handling of the Iraq war.

In separate interviews, McCain, of Arizona, said he had “no confidence” in Rumsfeld, citing his handling of the war in Iraq and the failure of the Pentagon to send more troops, while Schwarzkopf, the allied commander in the first Gulf War, said Rumsfeld seemed to be passing the buck when quizzed last week about the armor supply for troops on the ground.

McCain: Rumsfeld Was One of the Worst

By BRUCE SMITH
The Associated Press
Tuesday, February 20, 2007; 7:59 AM

BLUFFTON, S.C. -- Republican presidential candidate John McCain said Monday the war in Iraq has been mismanaged for years and former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld will be remembered as one of the worst in history.

"We are paying a very heavy price for the mismanagement _ that's the kindest word I can give you _ of Donald Rumsfeld, of this war," the Arizona senator told an overflow crowd of more than 800 at a retirement community near Hilton Head Island, S.C. "The price is very, very heavy and I regret it enormously."

Please don't group together McCain and Rumsfeld, McCain is one of the biggest reasons why Rumsfeld resigned.

[JaJae]

I'm gonna have to go with 7960 on this one. The point was that McCain is an exact echo of Bush when it deals with Iraq. Just because they both want to remain in Iraq doesn't mean their policies are similar the same as Democrats who want out of Iraq aren't all the same either. McCain and Bush's having similar personalities doesn't mean anything about their policies.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by JaJae

I'm gonna have to go with 7960 on this one. The point was that McCain is an exact echo of Bush when it deals with Iraq. Just because they both want to remain in Iraq doesn't mean their policies are similar the same as Democrats who want out of Iraq aren't all the same either. McCain and Bush's having similar personalities doesn't mean anything about their policies.

Yet nobody has been able to answer me when I ask what their differences are other than to say that McCain will listen to the generals.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by Scrum

Yet nobody has been able to answer me when I ask what their differences are other than to say that McCain will listen to the generals.

Isn't that Bush's line? Gotta listen to the General's on the ground tell me what I want to hear! hrhrhr

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by motivez

Isn't that Bush's line? Gotta listen to the General's on the ground tell me what I want to hear! hrhrhr

Yeah, that's why I keep asking the McCain supporters to tell me what the differences are. I've asked twice and only gotten these non-answers.