Muslims pissed at Pope

smokie700 · 09-16-2006, 05:06 AM

How did this not make a thread yet?

BBC NEWS | World | Europe | Pope's speech stirs Muslim anger

Muslim religious leaders have accused Pope Benedict XVI of quoting anti-Islamic remarks during a speech at a German university this week

'Abhorrent'

In his speech at Regensburg University, the German-born pontiff explored the historical and philosophical differences between Islam and Christianity and the relationship between violence and faith.

Stressing that they were not his own words, he quoted Emperor Manual II Paleologos of the Byzantine Empire, the Orthodox Christian empire which had its capital in what is now the Turkish city of Istanbul.

The emperors words were, he said: "Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."

I may be biased but the phrase quoted can be looked at true. Everychance muslims get pussyhurt they want jihad. Why can't they just have a thick skin about stuff like this? Who cares what someone elses says.

Nonphixion · 09-16-2006, 06:25 AM

He picked a clearly negative comment, during the time when the entire Muslim faith is an unstable force in the world. It would do you good to remember that the whole thing started because they felt their faith was being attacked and belittled by outsiders.

He emphasized a comment that would never have failed to inflame the extremists, by any measure or stretch of the imagination.

6SpeedTA95 · 09-16-2006, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by Nonphixion

He picked a clearly negative comment, during the time when the entire Muslim faith is an unstable force in the world. It would do you good to remember that the whole thing started because they felt their faith was being attacked and belittled by outsiders.

He emphasized a comment that would never have failed to inflame the extremists, by any measure or stretch of the imagination.

This whole thing started because of a few nutjobs that think they'll get 70 virgins if they kill a bunch of innocent people. This whole thing started so a few nutjobs could be in a position of power.

Also the guy is the pope, he can say whatever he wants can he not? Afterall prominent muslim leaders have been preaching out against the USA, Christianity and the west for decades now. Farahakan(sp) is always belittling and degrading christians and the media never blinks.

People that get all bent out of shape over this shit really need to step back and realize the world is diverse, the entire planet isn't going to agree with you and that doesn't mean they should die. Also, muslims who are upset with the comments need to wake up and realize whats going on. Their faith has been hijacked and its being wrecked by a small minority of muslim extremist.

smokie700 · 09-16-2006, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by Nonphixion

He picked a clearly negative comment, during the time when the entire Muslim faith is an unstable force in the world. It would do you good to remember that the whole thing started because they felt their faith was being attacked and belittled by outsiders.

He emphasized a comment that would never have failed to inflame the extremists, by any measure or stretch of the imagination.

i don't think the pope's intent was a negative one but what a great way to prove a point. If muslims will constantly get all bent out of shape about every comment about islam then they will not be able to progress in modern society. Sometimes you just have to shrug it off but by them swinging swords it does back up the quote orginally made.

6SpeedTA95 · 09-16-2006, 09:16 AM

Hot Air » Blog Archive » NYT: Pope owes Muslims a “deep and persuasive apology”

ballz2wallz · 09-16-2006, 11:41 AM

The Pope was right.

archangel003 · 09-16-2006, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

The Pope was right.

Pope Urban II was right.

motivez · 09-16-2006, 02:31 PM

I'm sure Christian's would be pretty pissed too if the most important Jew, Buddhist, or Muslim pointed out how many wars Christianity had started, and said they only brought pain and suffering to people throughout history.

I mean, shit, they get pussyhurt every time someone says "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas"

ballz2wallz · 09-16-2006, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

I'm sure Christian's would be pretty pissed too if the most important Jew, Buddhist, or Muslim pointed out how many wars Christianity had started, and said they only brought pain and suffering to people throughout history.

Christians are the first ones to admit that, and at the same suggest that that is not the case anymore. Have things changed much for Islam, or are they only agree because they know the truth behind it?

SpicyMcVoodoo · 09-16-2006, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

The Pope was right.

Yeah, he was right...except he forgot to mention his own religion was guilty of the same thing.

ballz2wallz · 09-16-2006, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Yeah, he was right...except he forgot to mention his own religion was guilty of the same thing.

He didn't forget. He knows that wasn't the subject at hand. He most likely forgot, however, that everyone else would be quick to point that irrelevant point out.

SpicyMcVoodoo · 09-16-2006, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Christians are the first ones to admit that, and at the same suggest that that is not the case anymore.

He was quoting a guy from the Byzantine Empire. The quote had to do with Muslims historically, so it's only fair to compare them to Catholics historically...and the history of the Catholic Church is very bloody.

motivez · 09-16-2006, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

He was quoting a guy from the Byzantine Empire. The quote had to do with Muslims historically, so it's only fair to compare them to Catholics historically...and the history of the Catholic Church is very bloody.

ballz2wallz · 09-16-2006, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

He was quoting a guy from the Byzantine Empire. The quote had to do with Muslims historically, so it's only fair to compare them to Catholics historically...and the history of the Catholic Church is very bloody.

Yes, he was pulling a quote from the past to show how relevant it still is today. The Catholic Church's past is hardly still relevant today, as its actions are nowhere similar to those of the Church in the past. This was hardly a pure history lesson, and you shouldn't try to make it such.

IminWonderland · 09-16-2006, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

I'm sure Christian's would be pretty pissed too if the most important Jew, Buddhist, or Muslim pointed out how many wars Christianity had started, and said they only brought pain and suffering to people throughout history.

I mean, shit, they get pussyhurt every time someone says "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas"

This is also true.

SpicyMcVoodoo · 09-16-2006, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Yes, he was pulling a quote from the past to show how relevant it still is today. The Catholic Church's past is hardly still relevant today, as its actions are nowhere similar to those of the Church in the past. This was hardly a pure history lesson, and you shouldn't try to make it such.

I haven't found a full text version of the speech, so I'm just going off this:

In his speech at Regensburg University, the German-born pontiff explored the historical and philosophical differences between Islam and Christianity and the relationship between violence and faith.

Stressing that they were not his own words, he quoted Emperor Manual II Paleologos of the Byzantine Empire, the Orthodox Christian empire which had its capital in what is now the Turkish city of Istanbul.

It seems as though he was trying to say, via quotes, that Islam is somehow more violent than Xianity, and that violence is incompatible with God.

But to answer the question of whether one is more inherently more violent than the other, the history of both is extremely relevant. I mean, if you simply go off scripture, both the Bible and the Quaran contain violent and abhorent instructions. So of course people then look at the behavior of followers...tell the tree by the fruit it produces, I suppose, is the logic.

The Catholic Church has been around for about 1900 years, and Islam for about 1400. If you're going to argue the inherent nature of those religions is evident in the behavior of the adherents, how can you ignore 90% of the behavior and only concentrate on the last couple hundred years? I'm sure there are Nazi war criminals who are some of the most vile humans alive who haven't done a bad thing in the past 60 years...so is it fair to judge their violent nature without taking into account their whole history?

ballz2wallz · 09-16-2006, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

I haven't found a full text version of the speech, so I'm just going off this:

It seems as though he was trying to say, via quotes, that Islam is somehow more violent than Xianity, and that violence is incompatible with God.

But to answer the question of whether one is more inherently more violent than the other, the history of both is extremely relevant. I mean, if you simply go off scripture, both the Bible and the Quaran contain violent and abhorent instructions. So of course people then look at the behavior of followers...tell the tree by the fruit it produces, I suppose, is the logic.

The Catholic Church has been around for about 1900 years, and Islam for about 1400. If you're going to argue the inherent nature of those religions is evident in the behavior of the adherents, how can you ignore 90% of the behavior and only concentrate on the last couple hundred years? I'm sure there are Nazi war criminals who are some of the most vile humans alive who haven't done a bad thing in the past 60 years...so is it fair to judge their violent nature without taking into account their whole history?

Again, I doubt he was doing it to spread the good history of the world. He was bringing it up to relate it to the world today. And, as it turns out, Christianity is not violent today, whereas Islam still is. It seems his comparison of the past quote is just as true today as it always has been.

SpicyMcVoodoo · 09-16-2006, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

And, as it turns out, Christianity is not violent today, whereas Islam still is.

That's not true, but assuming for the sake of argument it is, how is only looking at today significant? Like I said, Xianity has been around for around 2000 years...are we to look at a tiny sliver of Xian behavior and supposedly understand the fundamental nature of Xianity from it? The pope was talking about fundamental philosophies of Xianity and Islam, and how they relate to violence. The fundamentals of Xianity have not changed in 2000 years, regardless of whether the behavior of Xians has in very recent history. You have absolutely no basis to say the past couple hundred years of Xian behavior is more truly indicative of Xianity than the past 1800.

ballz2wallz · 09-16-2006, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

That's not true, but assuming for the sake of argument it is, how is only looking at today significant? Like I said, Xianity has been around for around 2000 years...are we to look at a tiny sliver of Xian behavior and supposedly understand the fundamental nature of Xianity from it? The pope was talking about fundamental philosophies of Xianity and Islam, and how they relate to violence. The fundamentals of Xianity have not changed in 2000 years, regardless of whether the behavior of Xians has in very recent history. You have absolutely no basis to say the past couple hundred years of Xian behavior is more truly indicative of Xianity than the past 1800.

How about the present day, as the Pope is relating it?

R-Type · 09-16-2006, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by smokie700

i don't think the pope's intent was a negative one but what a great way to prove a point. If muslims will constantly get all bent out of shape about every comment about islam then they will not be able to progress in modern society. Sometimes you just have to shrug it off but by them swinging swords it does back up the quote orginally made.

The same could be said for modern christian culture. Everytime some politician comes out of the closet or tries passing some 'unchristian' legislation, or every time some scientific study disproves some bit of the bible, they're out there thumping away, threatening all kinds of dire consequences while claiming they're enduring 'sufferage' because of it. The only reason they aren't resorting to extreme violcence to get their point across is because they haven't had to. Unlike the muslims, they don't have a powerful oligarchy of gov'ts and corporates converging on their countries' sovereignties. Instead, they've got government on their side, and with it, they are pushing for the same kinds of intolerance towards incompatible thought you see in muslim countries. ..and if you believe certain theories, you could even state that the current war in iraq is a distant extension of christian aggression since a large percentage of the party in power is made up of christian evangelical groups who enthusiastically support the war on grounds of faith.. Also, aggression by christian dominated countries in that area of the world, merely perceived or not, is one of the justifications stated for many of the terror attacks in recent history.

Anyway, regardless of the quote's accuracy, the pope was being HIGHLY hypocritical if he was calling Islamic faith 'abhorrent' due to violence or intolerance..past or present.