The People are NOT Sheep

David Octavius · 05-09-2008, 08:22 PM

I really have a problem with people who to this day call "the people" sheep or blind or stupid if they are swayed by other elements in our population that the pundit dislikes or doesn't agree with. I know at least one poster on here says it with much enthusiasm and pleasure.

I think he/she forgets that in our complex society we are highly specialized beings and must be so in order to thrive. The poster, and people like that person, may think the people are egregiously ignorant but forgets that in other facets in life - indeed in most - it is the poster who is profoundly ignorant and blind. Who here hasn't went to a doctor when they had the flu and "blindly" followed their advice and took their prescription and blindly followed the advise on the bottle on how to take said prescription?

This facet hold true in every part of society, from scientific to fixing cars, to making food; the same people the poster calls sheep are the same people the poster and people like him/her (and all of us) follow just as sheepishly down the road of life.

The point is that politics and political science is also a specialty, the very depths of it, its core, is something only the very few can delve into and communicate to the rest. The people at large do not have the time/resources to do such things so they rely on those who do to come up with the right answers. That they are given the wrong answers is not the fault of the people who are only doing what we all do, defer to experts, but instead it is the problem of the media in general and politicians in particular.

The people are NOT sheep or drones, they just don't have the RIGHT information, give them (and by them I mean all of us) the right info and you enlighten them - true power. But to continue to call them sheep and you are guilty of the very thing you brandish our politicians as - a person who is only interested in manipulating the people to what you believe is right, not what is actually right, and that is true blindness.

A_C_E · 05-09-2008, 10:11 PM

here, here

Fed Up · 05-09-2008, 11:23 PM

My inclination is you are referring to me David. I don't take offense to it.

I addressed this with ACE in another post by saying that I refer to these people as ignorant, meaning...they don't know what they don't know. I don't view it as offensive as you do as the Bible is full of references to sheep.

Shepherd, Lamb, Sheep and Flock Bible Verses

You possibly view it as offensive but there it is a metaphor that has significance: 450 Sheep Jump to Their Deaths | LiveScience

Perhaps it hasn't been the best use of terms, I agree and will refrain from using it in the future.

I agree 100% with your statement; "they just don't have the RIGHT information, give them (and by them I mean all of us) the right info and you enlighten them - true power."

This is what I'm writing about in my book, but the book is about the message, not about me. I could give a hoot what people think about me. If they learn something from the book, then I have accomplished my goal.

I did make reference to this in the post where I used sheep and sheeple quite a bit: Paul is out

I also agree that I have been guilty of a "holier-than-thou" attitude by using the term sheep and wont' be doing so in my book. I've learned a few lessons on this site and in my last exchange with ACE, I toned it down because of his reference to my using such language in a prior post. I would hope he would think it was a good exchange.

Thanks for the post and your observations.

Fed Up aka...sheep

7960 · 05-09-2008, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by David Octavius

The people are NOT sheep or drones, they just don't have the RIGHT information, give them (and by them I mean all of us) the right info and you enlighten them - true power. But to continue to call them sheep and you are guilty of the very thing you brandish our politicians as - a person who is only interested in manipulating the people to what you believe is right, not what is actually right, and that is true blindness.

I often find when someone calls other sheep he usually is also missing part of the picture. So saying you want to give people the "right" information may sound nice but the "right" information for you is probably different than the "right" information for me.

Fed Up · 05-10-2008, 12:11 AM

I do admit I own a couple of this guys books:

Amazon.com: A Nation of Sheep: Andrew P. Napolitano: Books

Amazon Online Reader : A Nation of Sheep (click on Table of Contents)

Fed Up

David Octavius · 05-10-2008, 12:51 AM

Originally Posted by 7960

I often find when someone calls other sheep he usually is also missing part of the picture. So saying you want to give people the "right" information may sound nice but the "right" information for you is probably different than the "right" information for me.

Right information in the general sense - so that people understand the issues, their context, how such issues affect them now and how it affects posterity. I guess I should of said "enlighten the people generally" so by the time politicians and pundits invoke their ideologies, the people can choose what most align with their own understanding. I am not trying to get people to think like me, diversity is important and is the key to prosperity on all levels.

I like that much better than fear mongering, pandering, infotainment etc that goes on now from all sides

David Octavius · 05-10-2008, 12:58 AM

Originally Posted by Fed Up

My inclination is you are referring to me David. I don't take offense to it.

I addressed this with ACE in another post by saying that I refer to these people as ignorant, meaning...they don't know what they don't know. I don't view it as offensive as you do as the Bible is full of references to sheep.

Shepherd, Lamb, Sheep and Flock Bible Verses

You possibly view it as offensive but there it is a metaphor that has significance: 450 Sheep Jump to Their Deaths | LiveScience

Perhaps it hasn't been the best use of terms, I agree and will refrain from using it in the future.

I agree 100% with your statement; "they just don't have the RIGHT information, give them (and by them I mean all of us) the right info and you enlighten them - true power."

This is what I'm writing about in my book, but the book is about the message, not about me. I could give a hoot what people think about me. If they learn something from the book, then I have accomplished my goal.

I did make reference to this in the post where I used sheep and sheeple quite a bit: Paul is out

I also agree that I have been guilty of a "holier-than-thou" attitude by using the term sheep and wont' be doing so in my book. I've learned a few lessons on this site and in my last exchange with ACE, I toned it down because of his reference to my using such language in a prior post. I would hope he would think it was a good exchange.

Thanks for the post and your observations.

Fed Up aka...sheep

Not to suggest I was talking about you.....but since you bring it up

Such labels as "sheeple" and "ignorant" tend to distract from what your central ideas are, besides, its hard for people you are trying to enlighten to be open to your thoughts if to them it sounds like your insulting their intelligence - even if you don't mean it to be

7960 · 05-10-2008, 12:59 AM

Originally Posted by David Octavius

diversity is ... the key to prosperity on all levels.

no, it's work that gets you that.

Fed Up · 05-10-2008, 01:01 AM

Originally Posted by David Octavius

Not to suggest I was talking about you.....but since you bring it up

Such labels as "sheeple" and "ignorant" tend to distract from what your central ideas are, besides, its hard for people you are trying to enlighten to be open to your thoughts if to them it sounds like your insulting their intelligence - even if you don't mean it to be

Point taken and corrected.

Never too old to learn David and in my last three years of research I've uncovered much that I didn't know...including that of myself.

And I'll always be ignorant!

Fed Up

David Octavius · 05-10-2008, 01:01 AM

Originally Posted by 7960

no, it's work that gets you that.

sigh...I keep forgetting that with you I have to be very specific:

Diversity as in thoughts and ideologies to come up with political and practical solutions to the issues we face today

Clear now?

7960 · 05-10-2008, 01:11 AM

Originally Posted by David Octavius

sigh...I keep forgetting that with you I have to be very specific:

Diversity as in thoughts and ideologies to come up with political and practical solutions to the issues we face today

Clear now?

sigh.......you didn't have to clarify yourself. My answer still stands.

kombayn · 05-10-2008, 04:27 AM

Yeah I hate when posters use the word "sheep" to try and disenfranchise another poster. It's tacky and takes on a role of teasing in a sense. But I usually ignore people that start using rhetoric like that, because they're usually the crazy conspiracy theorists.

7960 · 05-10-2008, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by kombayn

Yeah I hate when posters use the word "sheep" to try and disenfranchise another poster.

Disenfranchise?

Did you mean "dismiss, disregard, devalue......"

?

A_C_E · 05-10-2008, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by 7960

Disenfranchise?

Did you mean "dismiss, disregard, devalue......"

?

Look out, the language police are here

thewise1 · 05-10-2008, 12:52 PM

I usually find that the people identified as sheep not only lack a certain bit of information, they also refuse to listen to it because of a societal norm that they would have to question.

Hence the term sheep - they go along with the flock instead of listening to a logical argument that might challenge their belief system. Call it offensive if you want, but some people do exhibit the characteristics of a sheep.

David Octavius · 05-10-2008, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by thewise1

I usually find that the people identified as sheep not only lack a certain bit of information, they also refuse to listen to it because of a societal norm that they would have to question.

Hence the term sheep - they go along with the flock instead of listening to a logical argument that might challenge their belief system. Call it offensive if you want, but some people do exhibit the characteristics of a sheep.

Going by that logic then we are all sheep in one way or another, many people identify their cause with a certain politician, pundit, news show etc and rationalize their beliefs in them. But where you see that as sheeply behavior, I see that as the only avenue a person can go because our leaders and the media have their own agendas and will not/cannot provide real information because it will stop most people from identifying with a politician, pundit or news channel because they will see the shades of gray. The offshoot of better information is less irrational divisiveness (though rational divisiveness will always be around) and the media and our leaders depend on that irrationality for their livelihoods.

kombayn · 05-10-2008, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

Disenfranchise?

Did you mean "dismiss, disregard, devalue......"

?

I felt I used the term correctly, the people we're talking about here are usually trying to separate themselves from other people and try to completely devalue (better term) the rest of us. They like to use "WAKE UP!" and "SHEEPLE" it's quite annoying and really immature. They have no interest in a real debate, unfortunately you can find a lot of these people 9/11 Truthers or Ron Paul Supporters.

If they would be more mature with their statements people wouldn't dismiss them so quickly.

7960 · 05-10-2008, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by A_C_E

Look out, the language police are here

The meaning doesn't even come. He might as well have written "Yeah I hate when posters use the word 'sheep' to try and corvette another poster." I would have asked the same question because it's entirely the wrong word, and mostly I pointed it out because this is twice in 2 days it's been used incorrectly and it was bugging me.

7960 · 05-10-2008, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by kombayn

I felt I used the term correctly, the people we're talking about here are usually trying to separate themselves from other people and try to completely devalue (better term) the rest of us.

But it doesn't mean devalue. It means to deprive someone of their vote.

Fed Up · 05-10-2008, 08:51 PM

I'm in here somewhere based on my prior posts:

Sheeple

Sheeple is a term of disparagement, a portmanteau created by combining the words "sheep" and "people." It is often used to denote persons who acquiesce to authority, and thus undermine their own human individuality. The implication of sheeple is that as a collective, people believe whatever they are told, especially if told so by authority figures, without processing it to be sure that it is an accurate representation of the real world around them. The term is generally used in a political or religious sense. Usage

The label seems to have originated among those in the United States of a far right political persuasion. The Wall Street Journal first reported the label in print in