Arab op-ed: Pope's remarks may lead to war

[motivez]

Muslim world newspapers filled with articles slamming pope’s remarks; ‘it is clear that such remarks only contribute to the fueling of the fire raging between Islam and the West,’ op-ed published in al-Sharq al-Awsat says

The recent remarks made by Pope Benedict XVI on Islam are threatening to ignite the entire Muslim world.

Op-Eds published in the Arab newspapers slammed the pope even after the Vatican’s apology.

The most extreme opinion was voiced by Hani Pahas in the London-based Arabic-language daily newspaper Al-Hayat, who wrote “the pope’s comments may lead to war; we fear that the pope’s statements may lead to a war that we, Muslims and Christians alike, are trying to prevent through dialogue between East and West.

Hussein Shabakshy wrote in an article published by the London-based Arabic-language newspaper al-Sharq al-Awsat “It is clear that such remarks only contribute to the fueling of the fire raging between Islam and the West. There is no difference between Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri speaking from their caves in Tora Bora and the stage of an important Christian saint. Both parties contribute to the world verbal weapons for mass destruction.”

“The pope’s latest statement cannot be considered a slip of the tongue or a comic bit from a TV show; the situation here is different, and his remarks are indicative of an important and highly symbolic stance toward the religion (Islam) and the prophet of about a billion and-a-half Muslims,” he said.

“These are ignorant comments previously made by Adolf Hitler, who spoke of a supreme white race against all the other races, especially the African race.

Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood said a Vatican statement on Saturday saying Pope Benedict was sorry for upsetting Muslims with his comments on Islam did not go far enough.


Muslims protest in India (Photo: AP)

"We want a personal apology (from the Pope). We feel that he has committed a grave error against us and that this mistake will only be removed through a personal apology," Muslim Brotherhood Deputy Leader Mohammed Habib told Reuters.

The Grand Imam of the Al – Azhar University in Cairo, Sheikh Muhammad Sayyid Tantawi said the pope’s statements stem from complete ignorance regarding all that is related to Islam.

Other religious leaders throughout the Muslim world, including Iran, also slammed the pope.

The spiritual leader of Lebanon's Sunnis, the Grand Mufti Sheik Mohammed Rashid Kabbani, said the pope's remarks emanated either from "Ignorance and lack of knowledge or were deliberately intended to distort Islam."

"Reason is the substance of Islam and its teachings ... Islam prohibited violence in human life. Anyone who wants the truth (about Islam) must take it from Islam's holy book, the Koran, rather than from a dialogue or excerpts," he said.

These are the types of situations that Muslim leaders need to call for calm and start actively being a force for stablization and modernization in.

When are they going to realize that when they go to such extremes, or threaten war, or violently protest.. that it simply validates such criticisms in the minds of people who don't really know all that much about Islam aside from what they see in the way it's misused by extremists?

While I agree they have a right to be angry over the remarks (as any religious group would), and even protest over them, they need to make sure the methods by which they are angry or protest don't portray the masses as being the same as people who've given Islam a bad name.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by motivez

When are they going to realize that when they go to such extremes, or threaten war, or violently protest.. that it simply validates such criticisms in the minds of people who don't really know all that much about Islam aside from what they see in the way it's misused by extremists?

Never. It's what they want.

[Stylerod]

It's this type of thinking that has kept them on the low end of civilization for as long as they have been and will probably keep them there.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

It's this type of thinking that has kept them on the low end of civilization for as long as they have been and will probably keep them there.

Baghdad and Cordoba were the centers of enlightenment of the world and Europe, respectively, when the "west" consisted of villages and huts in a self imposed dark age

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Baghdad and Cordoba were the centers of enlightenment of the world and Europe, respectively, when the "west" consisted of villages and huts in a self imposed dark age

A lot happens in 500 years... well not as much in Baghdad and Cordoba apparently.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by JaJae

A lot happens in 500 years... well not as much in Baghdad and Cordoba apparently.

Your time table is a little off, muslims almost conquered europe in not just the 10th century but also the 16th century

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Your time table is a little off, muslims almost conquered europe in not just the 10th century but also the 16th century

16th century. We are currently in the 21st century. Hmmm.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by JaJae

16th century. 1500s. We are currently in the 2000s. Hmmm.

I said slightly, but if you want to be really picky, they also had a shot in 1683, which was only 323 years ago...and just 23 years that insignificant American Ben Franklin was born...you know both that event and that person were from SO LONG AGO why do we even bother remembering them?

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I said slightly, but if you want to be really picky, they also had a shot in 1683, which was only 323 years ago...and just 23 years that insignificant American Ben Franklin was born...you know both that event and that person were from SO LONG AGO why do we even bother remembering them?

Are you referring to the Battle of Vienna which had less losses and lasted 1/10th the time of the current Iraqi War as being equal to Muslims having a shot at taking over the Christian world? Am I following correctly?

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Are you referring to the Battle of Vienna which had less losses and lasted 1/10th the time of the current Iraqi War as being equal to Muslims having a shot at taking over the Christian world? Am I following correctly?

Uh...the Turkish Wars of that time in Europe lasted a few decades...

Their were over 200,000 muslim soldiers that held the siege for months, and Vienna was the key to the entire Central European region, at around the same they had made logistics easy enough to capture Italy...

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Uh...the Turkish Wars of that time in Europe lasted a few decades...

Their were over 200,000 muslim soldiers that held the siege for months, and Vienna was the key to the entire Central European region, at around the same they had made logistics easy enough to capture Italy...

Now it's decades. I thought it was in 1683. Changing the subject now?

And are you talking about when the Ottaman Empire was fighting for Independence from Russia? My history is a bit rusty, but I have no idea what war you're talking about.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Now it's decades. I thought it was in 1683. Changing the subject now?

And are you talking about when the Ottaman Empire was fighting for Independence from Russia? My history is a bit rusty, but I have no idea what war you're talking about.

The Siege of Vienna was in 1683, the war lasted decades

You see, there are WARS (which can last many decades) and BATTLES which are decided over one set piece of terrain and last only a few days, unless its a siege, which is also part of a war, but has the average lifespan of a year

Yes, your history is rusty, the Turks came from Anatolia which was never under Russian control...

You were trying to make the argument that Ben Franklin and the Siege of Vienna, from roughly the same 20 year time period, are insignificant today because it was so long ago...

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

The Siege of Vienna was in 1683, the war lasted decades

You see, there are WARS (which can last many decades) and BATTLES which are decided over one set piece of terrain and last only a few days, unless its a siege, which is also part of a war, but has the average lifespan of a year

Yes, your history is rusty, the Turks came from Anatolia which was never under Russian control...

You were trying to make the argument that Ben Franklin and the Siege of Vienna, from roughly the same 20 year time period, are insignificant today because it was so long ago...

Ok I had to wiki this.

Siege of Vienna - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Siege of Vienna of 1529, as distinct from the Battle of Vienna in 1683, represented the farthest westward advance into central Europe of the Ottoman Empire. Of all the clashes between the armies of Christianity and Islam, this one arguably did most to turn the tide against the Ottomans, who nevertheless continued to attack the Austrian-controlled parts of Hungary afterwards and returned for a second attempt on Vienna in 1532.

Decades not found.

The Battle of Vienna in 1683 lasted 2 days:
September 11th and 12th, 1683
although the seige started a couple months prior.
"The Battle of Vienna (Turkish: İkinci Viyana Kuşatması) (as distinct from the Siege of Vienna in 1529) took place on September 11 and September 12, 1683 after Vienna had been besieged by Turks for two months."

Again, decades not found.

BTW, during this seige they outnumbered their opponents 20-1 and the Turks lost 4x as many men. Interesting tidbit to put things into perspective.

[Thorgrim]

You're not putting anything in perspective

If you go back to the page you posted, under "battle of vienna" on the right called "Great Turkish War" you'll see this particular battle was the key point a two-part war that lasted from 1667 to 1699...decades

[Diamond Cross]

What the heck is i with these people?

They've been killing Chrisrtians for hundreds of years and don '[t need a reason.

When are they going to apologise to the Christians for the ones they've murdered?

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

You're not putting anything in perspective

If you go back to the page you posted, under "battle of vienna" on the right called "Great Turkish War" you'll see this particular battle was the key point a two-part war that lasted from 1667 to 1699...decades

404: 1667 and 1699 not found on Battle of Vienna page or the Seige of Vienna page.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by JaJae

404: 1667 and 1699 not found on Battle of Vienna page or the Seige of Vienna page.

Then look around, or try picking up a book

[IminWonderland]

[quote=Thorgrim;34449]I said slightly, but if you want to be really picky, they also had a shot in 1683, which was only 323 years ago...and just 23 years that insignificant American Ben Franklin was born...you know both that event and that person were from SO LONG AGO why do we even bother remembering them?[/QUOTE]


That's a really good point. I've noticed that parallel quite a bit. Because I would say that our country is incredibley young in comparison to others, and one could say that a country can not "mature" in only 300-odd years. Look at how much England has changed from the 1300's. But, when we look at Arabic countries, since they haven't changed *MUCH* in the last 300 years, we fail to look at where they have come from in the past 1000 years. I think this failure to consider their history is part of the reason why we aren't winning our War with them, in Iraq, or on the Terrorists.

[Stylerod]

I watched Lawence of Arabia the other day. What a GREAT movie. He had a quote in there that I thought still fit today.

So long as the Arabs fight tribe against tribe, so long will they be a little people, a silly people - greedy, barbarous, and cruel, as you are.

This little quote from a movie hit pretty hard. Because you see it today. They not only hate Christians and other peoples, they hate each other. And that is what will keep them down until their thinking changes.

[ballz2wallz]

So what happens if they make war on the Catholic church? What happens if they assassinate the Pope, or attempt to?