So the Pope makes comments about violence in Islam and they protest with...

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by JaJae

So other religions partake in this type of behavior just as often and over the same silly reasons?

Everyone has their differing styles

And you want to talk about silly reasons for violence?
YouTube - Even Stevphen on the War in Iraq

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

They have.

This behavior is not religious. It's human. It only has a religious connotation to it. That's the group that's doing this NOW. But, other types of classifications have done similar, same, and then some because they were upset over something we might think is irrational.

This thread is not about humans. It's about religious beliefs and the actions of those who subscribe to religions. The fact that some religions "have" isn't really the issue here. It's whether they "do" or not. Islam is at the level of Christianity centuries ago. Other religions have matured and are no longer as violent. For example, in America we have the "War on Christmas " where religious believers and followers complain. In a Muslim nation you'd have riots, firebombing, murder and torture if you changed religious tradition in such a way.

It's not an issue of whether we think its irrational or not, it's an issue of them committing the acts, period. It doesn't matter what our opinions of whether or not them murdering people over cartoons and such is rational or not. It has everything to do with the fact that thousands of people have been murdered in the name of Radicals for their religion. They commit these acts of killing the infidels and get rewarded with their virgins and their families get money, etc etc.

It's getting absurd and so are the comparisons that liken it to Christianity.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Everyone has their differing styles

And you want to talk about silly reasons for violence?
YouTube - Even Stevphen on the War in Iraq

I didn't know Iraq was a religious war. Every thread you post in you manage to weasel in "occupation" or the silly invasion of Iraq and it's usually done right about when you can no longer defend your position.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by JaJae

I didn't know Iraq was a religious war. Every thread you post in you manage to weasel in "occupation" or the silly invasion of Iraq and it's usually done right about when you can no longer defend your position.

As I've said in other threads, it was pushed by radical christians, and a president (who if you read Woodwards interviews with him) who believes he has a direct line to God who guides him to make decisions...thats pretty fucking religious to me

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

As I've said in other threads, it was pushed by radical christians, and a president (who if you read Woodwards interviews with him) who believes he has a direct line to God who guides him to make decisions...thats pretty fucking religious to me

It was a decision to invade based on the Senate and intelligence and through intelligence gathered by the majority of the world. Bush's religious affiliation has nothing to do with it.

Are you saying Bush is killing people because he doesn't like Muslims? Is this your new argument? Because Mulsims are killing people for being infidels. As far as I remember, Bush hasn't.

[slosucks]

Originally Posted by mididoctors

yes thats true.. but oddly the US airforce and army did blow up a lot of people in Iraq?

so

"if someone says that youre culture is violent, you do not respond with violence, its pretty simple"

has this transgression occurred somewhere along the line for the USA at some different level?


Boris
London

again you're missing my point.


the US blew up a lot of people Iraq, essentially in the name of USA. The citizens in the United States who opposed of government military actions in the name of USA took to the streets and protested....peacefully! that's my point, if you oppose the actions of a group you are part of, you do not protest by doing what you're accused of

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Are you saying Bush is killing people because he doesn't like Muslims? Is this your new argument?

It's not new.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by JaJae

It was a decision to invade based on the Senate and intelligence and through intelligence gathered by the majority of the world. Bush's religious affiliation has nothing to do with it.

Are you saying Bush is killing people because he doesn't like Muslims? Is this your new argument? Because Mulsims are killing people for being infidels. As far as I remember, Bush hasn't.

Iran doesn't fund Hezbollah to kill the IDF because it hates all Jews, otherwise why would they coddle the 20,000 Jews that live comfortably in Iran?

Same thing with Bush, he doesn't hate Muslims or want to kill them all...he just believes he is doing his Christian duty, its all religious...

and OFCOURSE his religious affiliation had to do with, when asked if he'd consult with his father about the war, he said instead of talking his father a former president about Iraq, he talked to his Christian God instead...

[Ardentfrost]

Christian God has been peaceful and loving for over 2000 years now... I really doubt it's him that told Bush to go to war.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by JaJae

It was a decision to invade based on the Senate and intelligence and through intelligence gathered by the majority of the world. Bush's religious affiliation has nothing to do with it.

Are you saying Bush is killing people because he doesn't like Muslims? Is this your new argument? Because Mulsims are killing people for being infidels. As far as I remember, Bush hasn't.

Are you saying that if Bush hadn't pushed for the invasion of Iraq, we would have anyway?

[IminWonderland]

Originally Posted by JaJae

This thread is not about humans. It's about religious beliefs and the actions of those who subscribe to religions. The fact that some religions "have" isn't really the issue here. It's whether they "do" or not. Islam is at the level of Christianity centuries ago. Other religions have matured and are no longer as violent. For example, in America we have the "War on Christmas " where religious believers and followers complain. In a Muslim nation you'd have riots, firebombing, murder and torture if you changed religious tradition in such a way.

It's not an issue of whether we think its irrational or not, it's an issue of them committing the acts, period. It doesn't matter what our opinions of whether or not them murdering people over cartoons and such is rational or not. It has everything to do with the fact that thousands of people have been murdered in the name of Radicals for their religion. They commit these acts of killing the infidels and get rewarded with their virgins and their families get money, etc etc.

It's getting absurd and so are the comparisons that liken it to Christianity.

Well, there was a time in Christian history, where it was profitable to murder people for being accused of witchcraft. And the reward was not only monetary, but also a way for people to cleanse their town. Because the Christian communities did not want an outside influence to change their beliefs. That was 300 years ago. Today, the Muslims are engaging in violence against something they feel is attempting to change their way of life, and change their culture. That is what they are fighting against. They are fighting against what they feel is an invasion by the West, and the morale of the West influencing their culture. This is the same kind and type of influence early Christians in America murdered for.

The fact that other religions "HAVE" done this, IS the issue. Because we obviously didn't learn when you try to influence a culture, and decide what's best for them, without considering what their culture actually is. The spreading of Christianity across the globe, and the spreading of capatalism, as well as West Values that these people have shielded themselves from up from about 50 years ago is now coming to a threshhold, and it's divided them. There are some who want the change, and then there are the people rioting in the streets.

Instead of being inflammatory about the people rioting, and their faith, we should be considering why it is they feel so attacked.

And like I said before...Christians would do the same. But they don't need to because right now Christianity is the dominant world power. But if they weren't, you better believe zealots would be calling for Christians to sacrifice themselves as well as their money for the attack on their religion.

[mididoctors]

Originally Posted by slosucks

again you're missing my point.


the US blew up a lot of people Iraq, essentially in the name of USA. The citizens in the United States who opposed of government military actions in the name of USA took to the streets and protested....peacefully! that's my point, if you oppose the actions of a group you are part of, you do not protest by doing what you're accused of

say that again? "if you oppose the actions of a group you are part of, you do not protest by doing what you're accused of"

Boris
London

[mididoctors]

Originally Posted by JaJae

There are many, many Muslim leaders who say bad things about the Christians. I have yet to see Christians leave their nation and go firebomb temples because of it though.

why not?

is t because such activity is dealt for them by having a massive military industrial complex?

if the USA did not have its military might how would it have responded to 911....

OTOH I think christians have entered Iraq from the US with evangelical missions and there own privatised security forces.. have they behaved in a identical manner... no?

Boris
London

[mididoctors]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

That's not really the same is it. We did not go to war in Iraq BECAUSE they said we were violent. We didn't go because they said anything at all. We went over there under the premise that IRaq had both ties to terrorists and an active WMD program.. both of which turned out to be wrong but that's another arguement for another time.

If you go to war because someone says something mean to you... you have some serious issues.

These people are going to war because someone said something bad about them.. When was the last time someone insulted you? Did you take a sword to them and light thier house on fire? Did you declare war on thier entire family?

I don't think thats completely true... incidents like the satanic verses did not produce the same results prior to the current state of affairs..

there surely must be some sort of reciprocal escalation going on?

why do elements in the US admin court support for a war with Iran if it not because they are belligerent (mean) to the USA?


the scale is an issue here

Boris
London

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by mididoctors

OTOH I think christians have entered Iraq from the US with evangelical missions and there own privatised security forces.. have they behaved in a identical manner... no?

Boris
London

Are you suggesting the Christians entered with their security and killed people because of their (non-christian) faith?

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Iran doesn't fund Hezbollah to kill the IDF because it hates all Jews, otherwise why would they coddle the 20,000 Jews that live comfortably in Iran?

I would hardly say they 'coddle' them. The numbers of Jews in Iran have dwindled from 85k since before the revolution to a mere 20k they are today. Things don't exactly seem promising.

Same thing with Bush, he doesn't hate Muslims or want to kill them all...he just believes he is doing his Christian duty,

No, he believes he's doing his presidential duty.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

No, he believes he's doing his presidential duty.

And since he believes god made him president....

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

I would hardly say they 'coddle' them. The numbers of Jews in Iran have dwindled from 85k since before the revolution to a mere 20k they are today. Things don't exactly seem promising.

No, he believes he's doing his presidential duty.

People fled during a revolution? No way

And I think he thinks presidential and christians are the same thing, his interviews sure point to that, I have yet to see an article from you where he made decisions on iraq specifically without any religious factors

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

And since he believes god made him president....

Every president since the birth of this country has had a belief in God. Every president since the birth of this country has been doing what they think is their presidential duty, not God's duty. Quit trying to make Bush out to be the worst president ever with these nonsensical assertions.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I have yet to see an article from you where he made decisions on iraq specifically without any religious factors

For the past few years, you and all the rest of the liberals have been screaming that WMDs were the reason for going into Iraq. Now you're changing it to religious reasons? Is there ever consistency in your arguments?