US Soldier In Iraq Uses Koran For Target Practice

thatguyoverthere · 05-19-2008, 11:53 PM

US forces apologise after soldier uses Koran for target practice - Telegraph

US forces apologise after soldier uses Koran for target practice

By Our Foreign Staff
Last Updated: 12:29AM BST 19/05/2008
The top American forces commander in Baghdad has apologised to Muslims after a soldier shot a Koran several times in target practice.

The bullet-holed and graffiti-scrawled copy of Islam's holy book was discovered by Iraqi police last week.
The staff sergeant responsible has now been sent home in disgrace. But he apologised to the military for his actions, calling them "shortsighted, very reckless and irresponsible – but not malicious".
Major General Jeffrey Hammond met tribal leaders from the Radhwaniya district – where the firing range is situated – to apologise.
He told them: "I come before you here seeking your forgiveness. In the most humble manner, I look in your eyes and I say please forgive me and my soldiers."
Another officer then kissed a Koran and presented it to the tribesmen as a "humble gift".
The Association of Muslim Scholars in Iraq called the desecration a "premeditated, despicable act".
It said: "This heinous crime shows the hatred the leaders and the members of the occupying force have against the Koran and the Muslim people."
In 2005, four people were killed in Afghanistan after reports that American interrogators at Guantanamo Bay had flushed a Koran down the lavatory.

May I state how impressed I am by our continued efforts to win the hearts and minds of the good people of Iraq, those whom we have so graciously bestowed God's gift of freedom out of the goodness of our hearts? (Er, I mean, because we urgently needed to protect ourselves from the deadly threat of Saddam's nonexistent cache of WMD!)

Whatever happened to the Golden Rule? Did no one ever stop to think that if Iraqi troops were occupying America, that if those Iraqi troops took a Bible, scrawled graffiti on it, and then used it for target practice, that we would, I dunno... take it as a sign of grave disrespect?

Are they actually actively looking for ways to offend them? Are there no grownups left? I mean, it's not like they take their religion seriously or anything like that.

It's not like fueling their animosity toward us could endanger American or Allied lives!

We're adding insult after insult after injury. Completely disgusting. Yet another revolting, insulting act that we have inflicted upon these people that we allegedly sought to liberate. Just add it to the list, I guess...

Incidents like this just makes it that much tougher for any average Iraqi to support the US, and those are the Iraqi's that we NEED if we ever expect to get out of Iraq.

nbiggershaft · 05-20-2008, 12:32 AM

Originally Posted by thatguyoverthere

US forces apologise after soldier uses Koran for target practice - Telegraph

May I state how impressed I am by our continued efforts to win the hearts and minds of the good people of Iraq, those whom we have so graciously bestowed God's gift of freedom out of the goodness of our hearts? (Er, I mean, because we urgently needed to protect ourselves from the deadly threat of Saddam's nonexistent cache of WMD!)

Whatever happened to the Golden Rule? Did no one ever stop to think that if Iraqi troops were occupying America, that if those Iraqi troops took a Bible, scrawled graffiti on it, and then used it for target practice, that we would, I dunno... take it as a sign of grave disrespect?

Are they actually actively looking for ways to offend them? Are there no grownups left? I mean, it's not like they take their religion seriously or anything like that. It's not like fueling their animosity toward us could endanger American or Allied lives!

We're adding insult after insult after injury. Completely disgusting. Yet another revolting, insulting act that we have inflicted upon these people that we allegedly sought to liberate. Just add it to the list, I guess...

Incidents like this just makes it that much tougher for any average Iraqi to support the US, and those are the Iraqi's that we NEED if we ever expect to get out of Iraq.

Frankly I find it disgusting that Muslims are so easily offended. It seems to be the one religion in the world that has excuse for people to widespread up in arms over any offense. No one would give a shit if I shot a bible.

motivez · 05-20-2008, 02:58 AM

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

Frankly I find it disgusting that Muslims are so easily offended. It seems to be the one religion in the world that has excuse for people to widespread up in arms over any offense. No one would give a shit if I shot a bible.

I beg to differ, if the military of Iran had a soldier who was using the Bible as target practice it'd be used as an example of why they're so evil.

Look how many people get angry when someone here burns the flag or whatever..

thatguyoverthere · 05-20-2008, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

Frankly I find it disgusting that Muslims are so easily offended. It seems to be the one religion in the world that has excuse for people to widespread up in arms over any offense. No one would give a shit if I shot a bible.

If you think defacing and shooting up someones religious text wouldn't/shouldn't be offensive to them, you're way off base. If Iraqi troops were occupying America, and defacing Bibles and then shooting at them, you bet your ass people would be offended. I really can't imagine anyone thinking they wouldn't. Christians here get pissed off if you say "Happy Holidays" as Christmastime, so don't delude yourself into thinking that Muslims have cornered the market at being offended against religious slights.

The main point is that we shouldn't be offending them, even inadvertently. This is far from inadvertent. It actually looks as if we're going the extra mile to be offensive.

We need the help of the average Iraqi citizen if we ever want to rebuild the country and get out of there. Treating their religion with utter disrespect after invading and occupying their country is no way to get the support of the average Iraq citizen. It actually accomplishes exactly the opposite.

Incidents like this make the jobs of everyone who is trying to do the right thing that much harder, prolonging the occupation and taking more of our hard earned tax dollars away from American citizens to pay for this war. Incidents like this increase Muslim animosity against Americans and endanger the lives of American and Allied troops.

Dylith · 05-20-2008, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

Frankly I find it disgusting that Muslims are so easily offended. It seems to be the one religion in the world that has excuse for people to widespread up in arms over any offense. No one would give a shit if I shot a bible.

It may seem like a small issue to us, but for these people this incident could be the straw that broke the camel's back. Things like this are a big deal because it is behavior and attitudes like this that many Muslims have come to expect from "westerners" (especially Americans).

It is just like the cartoons that sparked the riots. There have been many cartoons done that have shown Islam in a bad light, but these sparked massive tension because of a cumulative effect.

A recent worldwide Gallup poll just came out (was a six year long project)that showed that the number one problem that Muslims have with "the west" (more specifically America) is the way its population depicts and defames Islam. These smaller incidents that trigger outrage are merely small parts of a larger problem that act as triggers for anger and frustration.

Muslims are tired of being treated with disrespect and are tired of the ignorance with regards to Islam that is so pervasive in our society.

thewise1 · 05-20-2008, 11:11 AM

Although I understand why they are irritated over this, and actually sympathize, I wish they'd recognize that this is some dumb redneck trying to get a reaction and not paint us all like that.

IminWonderland · 05-20-2008, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by thewise1

Although I understand why they are irritated over this, and actually sympathize, I wish they'd recognize that this is some dumb redneck trying to get a reaction and not paint us all like that.

Are Iraqi's getting face time with our cream of the crop Americans? Or grunts in the dirt? (not using grunt disrespectfully, but I mean foot soldiers, which seem to be very young and inexperienced men)

Other countries have long divided the American people from the American Government. But soldiers are American people who work for the government. It's a double whammy.

Dylith · 05-20-2008, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by thewise1

Although I understand why they are irritated over this, and actually sympathize, I wish they'd recognize that this is some dumb redneck trying to get a reaction and not paint us all like that.

Their worries are somewhat justified though, Gallup polls show that 66% of American admit to having some prejudice against Muslims. One in five claim to have a great deal of prejudice towards Muslims, and 25% wouldn't even want a Muslim as a neighbor.

Furthermore, US media is overwhelmingly negative when it comes to stories dealing with Islam and Islamic countries.

The small stuff is simply representative of the larger picture. When these people get angry, it isn't only over the shooting of the Quran (may be for some) but also over the overall disrespect and image that the West has for Islam and Muslims.

7960 · 05-20-2008, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

Frankly I find it disgusting that Muslims are so easily offended.

werd

I'm also a little annoyed that "a soldier" did something and the rest of the original post ignores that it was an individual and goes on like it was our entire country taking a shit in their holy water.

kinggovernor · 05-20-2008, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by 7960

werd

I'm also a little annoyed that "a soldier" did something and the rest of the original post ignores that it was an individual and goes on like it was our entire country taking a shit in their holy water.

he is a representative of our entire country, right or wrong.

7960 · 05-20-2008, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

he is a representative of our entire country, right or wrong?

you forgot the question mark.

and the answer is "wrong"

Dylith · 05-20-2008, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

you forgot the question mark.

and the answer is "wrong"

Not according to public opinion polls. The disrespect behind the action seems to be rather representative of mainstream US thought according to Gallup Polls.

The act is symbolic of the opinions that "we" generally hold with regards to Islam.

kinggovernor · 05-20-2008, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

you forgot the question mark.

and the answer is "wrong"

no, it is not. The US military represents the US, and one bad apple makes the entire US look bad.

thewise1 · 05-20-2008, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

you forgot the question mark.

and the answer is "wrong"

king is 100% right here. These guys are our face there, whether any of us want it that way or not. Perception is everything, and if the only Americans these folks ever know are idiots that piss on their Quran, they aren't likely to be less prejudiced than Americans can be.

nbiggershaft · 05-20-2008, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Dylith

It is just like the cartoons that sparked the riots. There have been many cartoons done that have shown Islam in a bad light, but these sparked massive tension because of a cumulative effect.

Those riots and death threats were inexcusable.

nbiggershaft · 05-20-2008, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by thatguyoverthere

If you think defacing and shooting up someones religious text wouldn't/shouldn't be offensive to them, you're way off base. If Iraqi troops were occupying America, and defacing Bibles and then shooting at them, you bet your ass people would be offended. I really can't imagine anyone thinking they wouldn't. Christians here get pissed off if you say "Happy Holidays" as Christmastime, so don't delude yourself into thinking that Muslims have cornered the market at being offended against religious slights.

Sure they do, how many death threats you think these guys have gotten?

The Good Book Hidden Bible Flask

They have the market cornered on unacceptable reactions.

Dylith · 05-20-2008, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

Those riots and death threats were inexcusable.

Certainly were, but they did have specific causes that include more than just the existence of the cartoons.

They weren't merely riots over the cartoons, they were riots over the general lack of respect for Islam and ignorance about the religion as well as anti-Arabism that exists in "the west"

TankRizzo · 05-20-2008, 03:03 PM

while I'm all for his right to shoot the koran, bible, or any other book his heart desires, it's kind of a common sense issue. I realize the stress these guys are under and recognize this as a means to vent, but at the same time you have to respect the local customs, especially religious ones. It's counterproductive to their efforts over there.

nbiggershaft · 05-20-2008, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by Dylith

Certainly were, but they did have specific causes that include more than just the existence of the cartoons.

They weren't merely riots over the cartoons, they were riots over the general lack of respect for Islam and ignorance about the religion as well as anti-Arabism that exists in "the west"

also inexcusable to riot and kill people for