Does anyone here actually think it's good that oil companies have to defend profit? - Page 2

thewise1 · 05-21-2008, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by David Octavius

Sure, but there needs to be a balance - I don't think we need to be the number 1 economy to be happy, in fact it may injury us more than help

Interesting justification. At least you can admit that profit is required to be the number one economy, why you wouldn't want to strive to be the best is beyond me, though.

motivez · 05-21-2008, 04:09 PM

The people have decided to elect a government that has decided to tax them already, so it hould be used for programs that benefit the people instead of going into the pockets of a massively profitable business.

There's a lot of infrastructure around the country that needs to be improved, roads, bridges, there's plenty of other worthwhile projects it can be going to.

motivez · 05-21-2008, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by thewise1

Interesting justification. At least you can admit that profit is required to be the number one economy, why you wouldn't want to strive to be the best is beyond me, though.

Of course profit is required, but the idea that aside from profit there should be no other considerations in the minds of companies is a problem.

Greed isn't always a good thing.

thewise1 · 05-21-2008, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

The people have decided to elect a government that has decided to tax them already, so it hould be used for programs that benefit the people instead of going into the pockets of a massively profitable business.

There's a lot of infrastructure around the country that needs to be improved, roads, bridges, there's plenty of other worthwhile projects it can be going to.

The people have decided to elect a government that steals from those who produce in order to finance things that the people aren't willing to finance. Everyone wants great roads or whatnot, but I don't see people in favor of these taxes sending their stimulus check back to the government.

You can do that, you know. They will gladly accept your donation. But instead you (I'm speaking generally, but this does apply to you as well) call for other people to have to pay it 'because they can afford it'. What are you doing to get where you can afford it? (Again, speaking generally of everyone)

motivez · 05-21-2008, 04:17 PM

I think the word steal is hyperbole again, it's pretty ridiculous. No one forces you to be a citizen of this country, of your state, of your city, or county. If you don't like the way things are run, you're free to move.

If enough people decide they don't like it and want to move, well then things will change or your city (and in time, the country I suppose?) will go under. That's the market at work, so why are those who think like you do that you're being stolen from still here? I don't ask this as a slam at you, but it seems like moving and banding together with those who think like you do is the course of action most in line with your political beliefs.

People are willing to finance it because they continue to elect a government they know will levy taxes to pay for it. If they weren't willing to pay for it, they'd elect a libertarian, but so far I don't think there's any libertarians in the national congress at all.. so that should say something about how the American people feel about their policy ideas

I think the lower and middle income people aren't the ones who've benefited from our society to such a degree that they can really afford to send the money back. Those who have taken advantage of the US markets and stability our government has helped keep in place for their business / investments to thrive can.

If you're trying to ask what I'm doing to improve my life, I'm getting a college education right now.

thewise1 · 05-21-2008, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

I think the word steal is hyperbole again, it's pretty ridiculous. No one forces you to be a citizen of this country, of your state, of your city, or county. If you don't like the way things are run, you're free to move.

If enough people decide they don't like it and want to move, well then things will change or your city (and in time, the country I suppose?) will go under. That's the market at work, so why are those who think like you do that you're being stolen from still here? I don't ask this as a slam at you, but it seems like moving and banding together with those who think like you do is the course of action most in line with your political beliefs.

People are willing to finance it because they continue to elect a government they know will levy taxes to pay for it. If they weren't willing to pay for it, they'd elect a libertarian, but so far I don't think there's any libertarians in the national congress at all.. so that should say something about how the American people feel about their policy ideas

I think the lower and middle income people aren't the ones who've benefited from our society to such a degree that they can really afford to send the money back. Those who have taken advantage of the US markets and stability our government has helped keep in place for their business / investments to thrive can.

If you're trying to ask what I'm doing to improve my life, I'm getting a college education right now.

I'm pretty sure you were talking about buying a game console with your stimulus check. I know plenty of other people are going out to buy unnecessary items, but they can't afford to donate it? They sure have no problem calling for the rich to pay higher taxes.

I don't mean to call you out personally, but you need to put your money where your mouth is when you're calling for other people to pay for the services you use.

05-21-2008, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by thewise1

I'm pretty sure you were talking about buying a game console with your stimulus check. I know plenty of other people are going out to buy unnecessary items, but they can't afford to donate it? They sure have no problem calling for the rich to pay higher taxes.

I don't mean to call you out personally, but you need to put your money where your mouth is when you're calling for other people to pay for the services you use.

A friend of ours is a single mom, she just went from driving a 4 cylinder buick regal that got reasonable mileage. To driving a 2006 Trailblazer, now sh'e super pissed at gas prices and is mad because it cost her 70 bucks to fill it up. I was like ummm I told you that before you bought it and yet she insisted on spending her money on that. So now she's got a monthly payment and a gas bill thats doubled and she wants to blame that on the energy business. I dont understand it quite frankly.

Another friend of mine just bought a Tahoe and is bitching about gas prices. I told him to get a hatchback, he insisted on the Tahoe....makes no sense.

Actually it does make sense. As expensive as gasoline is, its not to the point that we as americans have thought seriously about changing our lifestyles.

motivez · 05-21-2008, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by thewise1

I'm pretty sure you were talking about buying a game console with your stimulus check. I know plenty of other people are going out to buy unnecessary items, but they can't afford to donate it? They sure have no problem calling for the rich to pay higher taxes.

I don't mean to call you out personally, but you need to put your money where your mouth is when you're calling for other people to pay for the services you use.

That's actually for my birthday, but why would I? It's something I want and I can afford to buy it. I can't afford to buy it and send the rebate check to the government. Rich people can.

They can because because they've taken advantage of the framework provided by the government for their business, investments, etc, to thrive in our country.

And you didn't answer any of my questions.

7960 · 05-21-2008, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

A friend of ours is a single mom, she just went from driving a 4 cylinder buick regal that got reasonable mileage. To driving a 2006 Trailblazer, now sh'e super pissed at gas prices and is mad because it cost her 70 bucks to fill it up. I was like ummm I told you that before you bought it and yet she insisted on spending her money on that. So now she's got a monthly payment and a gas bill thats doubled and she wants to blame that on the energy business. I dont understand it quite frankly.

It's a lot easier than looking in the mirror and admitting who actually fucked up.

7960 · 05-21-2008, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

That's actually for my birthday, but why would I? It's something I want and I can afford to buy it. I can't afford to buy it and send the rebate check to the government. Rich people can.

They can because because they've taken advantage of the framework .......

"People who did better than me and have more money should pay more because they are better at making money in the system than I am."

wtf

motivez · 05-21-2008, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

"People who did better than me and have more money should pay more because they are better at making money in the system than I am."

wtf

Someone who's older like you are and has had a chance to take advantage of our society's framework to profit is certainly capable of paying more in taxes than someone who's still in school, that's just common sense.

motivez · 05-21-2008, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

A friend of ours is a single mom, she just went from driving a 4 cylinder buick regal that got reasonable mileage. To driving a 2006 Trailblazer, now sh'e super pissed at gas prices and is mad because it cost her 70 bucks to fill it up. I was like ummm I told you that before you bought it and yet she insisted on spending her money on that. So now she's got a monthly payment and a gas bill thats doubled and she wants to blame that on the energy business. I dont understand it quite frankly.

Another friend of mine just bought a Tahoe and is bitching about gas prices. I told him to get a hatchback, he insisted on the Tahoe....makes no sense.

Actually it does make sense. As expensive as gasoline is, its not to the point that we as americans have thought seriously about changing our lifestyles.

If you buy something you can't really afford then you don't have a right to gripe, but there are plenty of people who bought something they can afford (or could at the time) and are having trouble paying gas prices now because they're so high.

It's not like the only people complaining are those who've gone out and bought gas guzzlers very recently.

thewise1 · 05-21-2008, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

That's actually for my birthday, but why would I? It's something I want and I can afford to buy it. I can't afford to buy it and send the rebate check to the government. Rich people can.

They can because because they've taken advantage of the framework provided by the government for their business, investments, etc, to thrive in our country.

And you didn't answer any of my questions.

It would seem you've also taken advantage of the framework provided by the government to thrive in our country and be able to afford to buy things that are not necessary.

If you wanted to buy it and you could afford it without calling for other people to be taxed at a higher rate than you, I wouldn't have any beef with that - in fact I would encourage it. That'd be awesome!

But instead, you're saying that you can't afford to donate money to the government, but rich people can afford to have it taken forcefully. Even though you're buying things you don't need at all.

I don't mean to make this a personal attack on you, but it seems hypocritical to me (and I know that this applies to much of the general population of the United States as well) that you would go out and buy a video game console or 1080p tv as you mentioned in that thread instead of investing that money and working to become successful so you can pay for your fair share.

Is it possible that you're happy living the way you live and you don't see much benefit in becoming 'rich'? This is what makes me disdain this line of thought - it's not like you're working to become one of these people that gets taxed more to support the system you use, you're making choices that help to prevent or at least delay it somewhat, while simultaneously saying 'well, they're rich, they can afford it to support it'.

The same concept applies to the rest of the country. We shouldn't be spending our stimulus check on items, we should be investing it - or if you really insist that taxes aren't high enough, and you really weren't greedy and cared about your fellow man, you might go ahead and donate it back to the government so they can redistribute it to people who need it more.

I submit that the care for your fellow man that you propose to be a good thing is nothing more than greed - after all it doesn't seem to apply to you, just the rich people. You want cheaper goods. It's not that you can't afford gas, you just can't afford gas AND your game console or other unnecessary items, depending on who you happen to be.

That's the funny thing with this kind of socialism. Everyone is willing to call for the redistribution of wealth from people richer than themselves, but when it comes to giving up their own pleasures, suddenly it hits home just how asinine their system really is. Greed isn't abolished in this system, it's just outlawed for anyone who is especially successful.

thewise1 · 05-21-2008, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

Someone who's older like you are and has had a chance to take advantage of our society's framework to profit is certainly capable of paying more in taxes than someone who's still in school, that's just common sense.

You appear quite capable of paying more in taxes if you're buying unnecessary items. After all, you've deemed their wealth unnecessary to their survival, why should a Wii be necessary to yours?

motivez · 05-21-2008, 05:03 PM

Still waiting on you to answer any of my questions instead of avoiding them.

If you're going to claim you're being stolen from, why haven't you moved? No one is forcing you to live where you do.

thewise1 · 05-21-2008, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

Still waiting on you to answer any of my questions instead of avoiding them.

If you're going to claim you're being stolen from, why haven't you moved? No one is forcing you to live where you do.

So if I don't like it, leave? Pretty sure you've argued against that flawed logic in the past, why not now?

Also, it wasn't in question form above. It was a statement.

motivez · 05-21-2008, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by thewise1

You appear quite capable of paying more in taxes if you're buying unnecessary items. After all, you've deemed their wealth unnecessary to their survival, why should a Wii be necessary to yours?

No one has said that all spare money every person has should be given to the government.. you're trying to make a point by replying to something no one is advocating.... That = fail.

motivez · 05-21-2008, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by thewise1

So if I don't like it, leave? Pretty sure you've argued against that flawed logic in the past, why not now?

Also, it wasn't in question form above. It was a statement.

The point is, you're claiming you're being stolen from.. yet you willingly live in a place you know has rules about what you have to pay in taxes, etc.. you're responsible for your decisions, if you don't like the way things are you have several choices

a) move somewhere else
b) try to change it while accepting that in the meantime, you'll have to abide by the rules

In case b, nothing is being stolen.

thewise1 · 05-21-2008, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

No one has said that all spare money every person has should be given to the government.. you're trying to make a point by replying to something no one is advocating.... That = fail.

I didn't say all your spare money had to be taxed. But you could clearly afford a higher tax rate than you are currently being taxed. Somehow you feel you should be exempt from it, though, while applying it to those who are more well off than yourself.

thewise1 · 05-21-2008, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

The point is, you're claiming you're being stolen from.. yet you willingly live in a place you know has rules about what you have to pay in taxes, etc.. you're responsible for your decisions, if you don't like the way things are you have several choices

a) move somewhere else
b) try to change it while accepting that in the meantime, you'll have to abide by the rules

In case b, nothing is being stolen.

It's state sponsored theft. Just because there is a law making it legal doesn't mean it's right.

Slavery (the kind with black folks) was legal at one point as well, and I doubt you'd use your modern day knowledge to say

a) move somewhere else
b) try to change it while accepting that in the meantime, you'll have to abide by the rules

In case b, nothing is wrong because the law allows for slavery