Does anyone here actually think it's good that oil companies have to defend profit?

[Spideynw]

Originally Posted by beanmonster

If survival is the only measure of what makes an activity acceptable then there'd be a lot less complaining on all sides of every issue, though I think both you an I would agree that the ability to survive through something does not make it acceptable.

People had sex, played, worked, ate, etc., etc. for thousands of years without gasoline.

[Spideynw]

Originally Posted by seangone

If they were, as you claim, trying to provide a product at the lowest possible price, then they would not have record profits. It's not about the prices going up, it's about the companies making so much profit. There's dozens of reasons, fixable and not, for gas prices to go up, but not a reason for record profits at the same time.

Please, explain to me, why companies should not get "record" profits. I cannot wait for this one.

I assume you think there should be a ceiling on wages as well right?

[seangone]

Originally Posted by Spideynw

Please, explain to me, why companies should not get "record" profits. I cannot wait for this one.

I assume you think there should be a ceiling on wages as well right?

I didn't say companies should not get record profits. I was stating that fuel companies should not be making record profits at the expense of the country.

There's no reason for a ceiling on wages.

There's very specific and clear reasons to not price gouge.

[Rouger2]

There is no real competition it the oil industry they work like a monopoly which is illigal, but they get away with it because they don't meet to set prices, they just don't compete. Profits are not what made us great capitalism or competition is what has made us great producers. In a real capitalistic or competitive market you work your asses off and there are no balloon profits only fair profits and they usually are not that great. There is no way to stop Opecs monopoly but we can do something about monopolies in this country.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by Spideynw

People had sex, played, worked, ate, etc., etc. for thousands of years without gasoline.

They also lived in mud huts, prayed to the Sun and died of old age at 30.



If there is a way to live in modern society and not have to pay for oil in one way or another, I would love for you to enlighten us.

[Spideynw]

Originally Posted by seangone

I didn't say companies should not get record profits. I was stating that fuel companies should not be making record profits at the expense of the country.

But they are not making record profits "at the expense of the country". They are simply making record profits. If the government would allow more refineries to be built and for companies to drill for new oil in Alaska, then supply would go up, demand would go down, and oil company profits would go down. Another thing the government could do is reverse all the money they pumped into the economy, take it back out, the dollar would get stronger, prices would drop, and the record profits would fall.

There's no reason for a ceiling on wages.

Oh please. You are telling me you do not think CEO's should have a cap on their salaries and benefits?

There's very specific and clear reasons to not price gouge.

And how does one know if they are price "gouging"? Because liberals like you complain?

[Spideynw]

Originally Posted by Rouger2

There is no real competition it the oil industry they work like a monopoly

No they don't. They work like a cartel.

which is illigal,

First of all, there is no international law that makes cartels illegal. Second of all, just because something is illegal, does not mean it should be.

but they get away with it because they don't meet to set prices, they just don't compete.

No they get away with it because the U.S. government restricts new oil drilling, new refineries, and prints way too much money.

[Spideynw]

Originally Posted by Scrum

They also lived in mud huts, prayed to the Sun and died of old age at 30.

They also lived in wood built homes and cement built homes, prayed to the Christian god, and died of old age at 60.

In our current age, there are societies that live in mud huts, pray to the Sun, and die of old age at 30.

So, obviously oil is not the solution. Maybe you should try looking in other places for the solution.

If there is a way to live in modern society and not have to pay for oil in one way or another, I would love for you to enlighten us.

Hmm. I saw a show on this. You buy solar panels to power your house. Use a car that runs on something else besides gasoline (I think they used animal by products). And a bunch of other things. It can be done. You just don't want to because it costs more than gasoline does right now.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by Spideynw

Hmm. I saw a show on this. You buy solar panels to power your house. Use a car that runs on something else besides gasoline (I think they used animal by products). And a bunch of other things. It can be done. You just don't want to because it costs more than gasoline does right now.

And will they deliver those fancy new solar panels with a team of mules?

Anytime you buy something you are paying for the oil that was used to manufacture or transport the item. Your solution isn't a solution.

[Spideynw]

Originally Posted by Scrum

And will they deliver those fancy new solar panels with a team of mules?

Anytime you buy something you are paying for the oil that was used to manufacture or transport the item. Your solution isn't a solution.

Sure it is. Have you ever heard of the Amish? Try again. You just don't want to give up your lifestyle. Cry me a river.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by Spideynw

Sure it is. Have you ever heard of the Amish? Try again. You just don't want to give up your lifestyle. Cry me a river.

So go out and live like the Amish or shut the fuck up?


BTW - The Amish have no problem driving their carriages on road that are paved by machines that run on *gasp!* gasoline.

[Fed Up]

Originally Posted by Scrum

If there is a way to live in modern society and not have to pay for oil in one way or another, I would love for you to enlighten us.

Just my 2 cents...

When a society has to adjust to what makes sense and cents, it does. In some countries the citizens use pedal power or battery powered bicycles to get to and from. In a 3rd world country like the Philippines, workers pay a very small amount to ride a Jeepney for a couple hours or more to just get to a job where they work 8-10 hours, make a couple hundred a month...then take the Jeepney home for two hours, 5 days a week. Their only goal is food and shelter for their family, but I can tell you this...they are happy.

The U.S., at least for the larger cities, has a pretty good bus system (and rail in some cities). Carpooling would/has increased. Neighborhoods might band together and buy a used van. There are many options that can be utilized.

Granted, for non-major cities, they might have to come to the same or alternative conclusions on what they can do to get by.

Fed Up

[Spideynw]

Originally Posted by Scrum

So go out and live like the Amish or shut the fuck up?


BTW - The Amish have no problem driving their carriages on road that are paved by machines that run on *gasp!* gasoline.

But the Amish would be fine just driving their carriages on roads that were not paved.

And yes, go out and live like the Amish or stfu, because the only argument I have heard that the oil profits are unfair is that our way of life depends on it. But, our way of life is not necessary. Therefore, gasoline is unnecessary.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by Spideynw

Sure it is. Have you ever heard of the Amish? Try again. You just don't want to give up your lifestyle. Cry me a river.

There's no such thing as a middle ground. There's no such thing as a middle ground. There's no such thing as a middle ground.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by Spideynw

But the Amish would be fine just driving their carriages on roads that were not paved.

And yes, go out and live like the Amish or stfu, because the only argument I have heard that the oil profits are unfair is that our way of life depends on it. But, our way of life is not necessary. Therefore, gasoline is unnecessary.

More like their profits have come because their product is a necessity for all aspects of modern society, and it's ridiculous to suggest society regress 100+ years before raising taxes on a company that has benefited from decades of taxpayer investment.

Originally Posted by seangone

Those are mitigating factors as to the cost to the consumer, which could help, but does not explain why the companies should be able to take advantage of the national dependence on oil for record profits. There wouldn't be much to discuss if they were not rolling in profits while consumers faced rising fuel prices.

Companies aren't driving the cost of oil, they're having some substantial problems due to these high prices as well.

Originally Posted by motivez

More like their profits have come because their product is a necessity for all aspects of modern society, and it's ridiculous to suggest society regress 100+ years before raising taxes on a company that has benefited from decades of taxpayer investment.

Decades of tax payer investment???? It was the oil companies investments over the last 100 years taht built our vital transportation fuel infrastructure, mnot the government or the tax payers...the corporations that everyone is damning today. When the price of oil collapsed in the 1980s and when it really got bad in the mid/late 1990s no one cared. Government didn't bail them out...now they're profitable and prices are high and its not their fault and yet we're supposed to strap with with new taxes further decreasing investment in stable supplies. Makes NO sense.

[motivez]

Yes, we've subsidized the energy industry and the oil companies for decades.

I don't think tax dollars should be going to fund an industry that's wildly profitable.

[Fed Up]

Originally Posted by motivez

I don't think tax dollars should be going to fund an industry that's wildly profitable.

Like ADM and ethanol eh? Former CEO Dwayne Andreas used to give money to both parties! Price of corn now through the roof...

Fed Up

Originally Posted by motivez

Yes, we've subsidized the energy industry and the oil companies for decades.

I don't think tax dollars should be going to fund an industry that's wildly profitable.

We have NOT subsidized them. We've given them tax breaks, BIG damn difference. A subsidy is propping up a business or industry, in otherwords giving them back more money than they pay in taxes. THey're not subsidized in the least, thats a word that politicians have decided to throw around in an attempt to garner support for a ridiculous tax scheme.

The word subsidy has been corrupted by modern day politicians...the original use of the word subsidy for economic purposes was the distribution of money to prop up a business or industry. Farm subsidies are a great example of real subsidies. Today htey're not so much subsidies but the name has stuck, even for farmers that are getting tax cuts and not subsidies.

The oil industry is heavily taxed and they do get a few big tax breaks as a result.

I'd be ok with ending subsidies but I also thinkw e should eliminate the corporate income tax alltogether and levy heavy fines for pollution and reckless behavior.

The oil companies built the fuel infrastructure necessary for our modern day of life not the government and not the consumer. The oil companies. Thats pretty much an undeniable fact. Gas stations wherever you nee dthem? yeha htat was done by the corporations...This nonsense that making a profit is evil is going to be the end of our country and economic system if it continues to bbecome more an dmore extreme.

I'm not happy with high gas prices and high energy costs thats why we've drastically altered our lifestyle.