Does anyone here actually think it's good that oil companies have to defend profit?

[motivez]

Originally Posted by thewise1

It can also be replaced by electrical alternatives. You don't have to give it up completely to bring the price down through other means. There is a balance that can be achieved. Eventually it could go away completely but it would take a long time.

That electricity just comes from no where? No oil involved in it's production?

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by motivez

That electricity just comes from no where? No oil involved in it's production?

2% of our electricity comes from oil, which is 2% too much on something like electricity. There's plenty of other ways we can generate electricity other than wasting oil.

[motivez]

Coal and other things as well typically involve oil in the transportation, solar panels don't just magically appear, they're created with oil, etc..

The list goes on, there's no simple way as some in this thread have suggested that we can simply "stop using" oil right now, so we are forced to buy their product unless we're willing to accept, as Lou pointed out, riots, famine, and the death of a significant portion of the population.

[thewise1]

Originally Posted by motivez

Coal and other things as well typically involve oil in the transportation, solar panels don't just magically appear, they're created with oil, etc..

The list goes on, there's no simple way as some in this thread have suggested that we can simply "stop using" oil right now, so we are forced to buy their product unless we're willing to accept, as Lou pointed out, riots, famine, and the death of a significant portion of the population.

No one said we have to stop using it.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by thewise1

No one said we have to stop using it.

Originally Posted by Spideynw

...

And yes, go out and live like the Amish or stfu, because the only argument I have heard that the oil profits are unfair is that our way of life depends on it. But, our way of life is not necessary. Therefore, gasoline is unnecessary.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by motivez

Coal and other things as well typically involve oil in the transportation, solar panels don't just magically appear, they're created with oil, etc..

The list goes on, there's no simple way as some in this thread have suggested that we can simply "stop using" oil right now, so we are forced to buy their product unless we're willing to accept, as Lou pointed out, riots, famine, and the death of a significant portion of the population.

Excellent points.

[Spideynw]

Originally Posted by motivez

And this is not proof that anyone has said we have to stop using it. Try again.

[Spideynw]

Originally Posted by motivez

Coal and other things as well typically involve oil in the transportation, solar panels don't just magically appear, they're created with oil, etc..

The list goes on, there's no simple way as some in this thread have suggested that we can simply "stop using" oil right now, so we are forced to buy their product unless we're willing to accept, as Lou pointed out, riots, famine, and the death of a significant portion of the population.

Society does not have to have oil to survive, or flourish. There is no reason to think society as a whole would simply stop using oil. That was a ridiculous point that someone else made. As prices go up, people will adjust their lifestyle. Again, "record" oil profits are still far below those of other industries.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by Spideynw

And this is not proof that anyone has said we have to stop using it. Try again.

Oh please, you suggested we should stop using it and all live like the Amish, don't try to back away from your ludicrous position now

[seangone]

Originally Posted by Spideynw

Society does not have to have oil to survive, or flourish. There is no reason to think society as a whole would simply stop using oil. That was a ridiculous point that someone else made. As prices go up, people will adjust their lifestyle. Again, "record" oil profits are still far below those of other industries.

Can you be more specific about which are making more of a profit? Who's beating Exxon's 39 billion?

[lew]

Capitalism should not be punished.


Neither should profits.


But the government should do a few things to help lower the price of oil / gasoline. Here's a few off the top of my head: our government should stop subsidizing Big Oil, stop subsidizing far inferior competitor products, stop going to war to secure oil, stop cutting Interest rates which spurs on malinvestment and leaves less investment money available for truly alternative fuels, lower the taxes and tariffs on oil, lessen oil regulations, open up drilling in new places in the US, open up nuclear factories, lower taxes across the board for all Americans so that we can have more money to pay for gas, and stop inflating / devaluing the dollar so that our money has more buying power.

[lew]

Originally Posted by Spideynw

We do not subsidize the oil industry the same way we subsidize the food industry. We just give the oil industry tax breaks, we do not actually give them funding.

We also go to war to secure pipelines for oil. We do not do that for food.



We do a LOT more for Big Oil than we do for Big Food. Though, we do a lot for Big Food as well.

[Rouger2]

Originally Posted by Spideynw

No they don't. They work like a cartel.



First of all, there is no international law that makes cartels illegal. Second of all, just because something is illegal, does not mean it should be.



No they get away with it because the U.S. government restricts new oil drilling, new refineries, and prints way too much money.

Cartel, monopoly whats the difference and monopolies are anti capitalistic so they should be illigal

[lew]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

We have NOT subsidized them. We've given them tax breaks, BIG damn difference. A subsidy is propping up a business or industry, in otherwords giving them back more money than they pay in taxes. THey're not subsidized in the least, thats a word that politicians have decided to throw around in an attempt to garner support for a ridiculous tax scheme.

The word subsidy has been corrupted by modern day politicians...the original use of the word subsidy for economic purposes was the distribution of money to prop up a business or industry. Farm subsidies are a great example of real subsidies. Today htey're not so much subsidies but the name has stuck, even for farmers that are getting tax cuts and not subsidies.

The oil industry is heavily taxed and they do get a few big tax breaks as a result.

I'd be ok with ending subsidies but I also thinkw e should eliminate the corporate income tax alltogether and levy heavy fines for pollution and reckless behavior.

The oil companies built the fuel infrastructure necessary for our modern day of life not the government and not the consumer. The oil companies. Thats pretty much an undeniable fact. Gas stations wherever you nee dthem? yeha htat was done by the corporations...This nonsense that making a profit is evil is going to be the end of our country and economic system if it continues to bbecome more an dmore extreme.

I'm not happy with high gas prices and high energy costs thats why we've drastically altered our lifestyle.

Big Oil is subsidized. And it has ALWAYS been subsidized.

When Rockefeller got started (a true free-trader / free-marketer), his biggest rivals were subsidized oil companies. He eventually defeated them in the marketplace and then they complained to their congressional buddies that his business was a "monopoly."

Ever since then, Big Oil has been a government-approved cartel. They are subsidized with money, but do you do know what their biggest subsidy is? The military. Our government sends the military to war to defend oil companies.

Our government gives all sorts of economic incentives to Big Oil, ie subsidies.

[Spideynw]

Originally Posted by motivez

Oh please, you suggested we should stop using it and all live like the Amish, don't try to back away from your ludicrous position now

I did not say that anyone "should" stop using it. I was just pointint out it is not necessary to enjoy life and that it was an option.

[Spideynw]

Originally Posted by seangone

Can you be more specific about which are making more of a profit? Who's beating Exxon's 39 billion?

Of course.

Putting Oil Industry Profits in Perspective | National Center for Policy Analysis

Putting Oil Industry Profits in Perspective

For more than two decades, oil company profits have lagged those of other industries, analysts report. But recent increases have brought oil's bottom line into greater equilibrium with the rest of American business. From the standpoint of encouraging greater production, this should be good news for consumers -- rather than a cause for complaint, as some critics have seen it.

• From 1977 through 1999, net income in the oil industry was only 9.7 percent of net investment -- as opposed to 11.5 percent for all of American industry.
• From 1994 through 1998, oil company profits averaged 7.2 percent -- or about half of the 14.2 percent average for all the companies in the Standard & Poor's list of 500 industrial stocks.
• Even in the first quarter of this year, oil companies' profit margin was only 5.9 percent compared with 7.3 percent for all industries -- and 13 percent for such favored businesses as banks, publishing, broadcasting and electronics.
• In the second quarter of 2000, however, most oil companies had profit increases, some well over 100 percent, due to the rising price of crude oil -- which only had the effect of putting them on a par with profits in other industries.

Oil industry analysts expect that over the next couple of years, profits should level out on a plateau compatible with earnings for the rest of the companies in the S&P 500. But that will depend upon OPEC policies.
The cost of producing crude oil is somewhere between $7 and $12 per barrel. Oil industry insiders say that a considerable chunk of the difference between production costs and the barrel price will have to be devoted to exploring for oil and drilling and developing in deeper and more hazardous regions. The companies will also have to commit huge sums to develop synthetics and find new sources of natural gas.
Source: Robert A. Mosbacher (Mosbacher Energy Company), "Oil Profits Are Finally Where They Ought to Be," New York Times, August 18, 2000.

[Spideynw]

Here is more.

NCPA | Brief Analysis #549, Taxing Profits, Draining Energy

...
The Oil Industry Doesn't Make Windfall Profits. Despite a number of government studies and congressional hearings, no evidence has been presented showing that the oil industry has colluded to keep retail gasoline prices high. For instance, the Energy Information Agency (EIA) in the U.S. Department of Energy found that approximately 85 percent of the changes in gasoline prices in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina were due to changes in the market price of crude oil...

...
Windfall Profits Tax Discourages Production. Past experience with windfall taxes has not been positive. In April 1980, Jimmy Carter signed the "Crude Oil Windfall Profits Tax" to replace failed oil price controls. This was the largest tax ever imposed on an American industry and was designed to recover a portion of money politicians believed was unfairly received by oil companies. The money was earmarked to develop renewable energy, thus reducing U.S. dependence on foreign oil, and to fund low-income energy assistance programs. But the tax failed to deliver either and the Reagan administration led its repeal in 1988. According to the Congressional Research Service:...

...
Windfall Profits Tax Discourages Investment. It is not surprising that a windfall profits tax fails to either increase domestic production or reduce prices. When profits are penalized, there are fewer incentives to increase capacity. Oil production is risky and requires heavy initial investment in infrastructure. Meanwhile, oil prices can fluctuate. New oil may or may not be discovered. Because of these uncertainties, investment in oil production requires the ability to forecast likely outcomes. A windfall tax complicates this task. When a company is unsure what the price of oil will be at a certain point in the future and consequently unsure whether it will be penalized by the government for making a profit that year, investment risk increases...

[Spideynw]

Here is more: Oil Profit Margins vs. Other Industries « The Everyday Economist

http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/103679.pdf

This one shows that profit margins were only 8% average for the oil industry in 2007.