Kindergarten teacher allows students to vote unpopular kid out of class.

[jimeigh]

come to think of it i have a case of this even closer to home. my cousin's baby daughter is autistic, but they caught it young so they've already started therapy. they recently made for her a doll that's about her size so that she can improve her people-skills by interacting with the doll as though it were a person.

[7960]

Originally Posted by jimeigh

i heard it said that the doctor explained that these kid's who are i think 5-7 years old have the intelligence of the average 2 year old.

the doc can say that but the fact is nobody really knows.

if you're a parent be prepared to cry.

ABC News: Autism Breakthrough: Girl's Writings Provide 'Remarkable Insight' on Disorder

she understands everything going on around her but she can't interact, and when she does she can't control *how* she interacts.

I guess some people are probably going to think "she's just not trying" or that it's for attention or that a few good smacks and she'll straight out. They need a punch in the head.

[jimeigh]

Originally Posted by 7960

the doc can say that but the fact is nobody really knows.

yea, that's given. but the kids kinda DO act like they're 2.

[TankRizzo]

I saw an interview with the mom yesterday and she had the kid with her. She had to apologize to the interviewer because the kid literally talked the ENTIRE interview with the mother.

The teacher could have handled it better than a vote, but after seeing that, the kid probably drove her freaking nuts. I don't know how you'd go about teaching with a distraction like him in the room.

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by 7960

Again, the parents are not out there hoping their kid is autistic so it can excuse their shitty parenting (like you're suggesting). Autistic kids can't help how they are...they don't recognize that you have feelings, or they know they're different but don't know *how* or *why* they're different, and that's frustrating so they act up. When this teacher tried to give him a lesson all he understood was people were saying mean things. He didn't associate them saying mean things about him with what he's said or done.

What you're doing is exactly what is wrong with society in a very general sense. You think because I'm critical of the increased rate of diagnosis, that I think there are NO true cases out there. That simply isn't the case. You can give all the evidence that aspergers does exist you want and that doesn't change the statistical FACT that diagnosis of various types of behavioral health problems have increased at a significant rate.

Go google misdiagnosis of behavioral health problems and see that it happens ALL the time. Smart kids are diagnosed and treated for ADHD (for instance) because they're bored.

I'm not saying this particular kid (in the OP) does or does not have autism. ALL I'm saying is that the parents are out looking for a reason why their kid acts like he does. The teacher didn't send up a red flag, THEY are seeking it. I believe (this is my opinion, not a fact) that this is the most likely method in which behavioral health problems are misdiagnosed.

[7960]

Originally Posted by TankRizzo

I don't know how you'd go about teaching with a distraction like him in the room.

I've tried. You can't.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

What you're doing is exactly what is wrong with society in a very general sense. You think because I'm critical of the increased rate of diagnosis, that I think there are NO true cases out there.

Negative.

What I'm saying (again) is that you posted a study that barely agrees with what you want to believe. Hardly anyone had heard of asperbers before the mid-80s so is it such a stretch to believe that kids with it were written off as brats, jerks, spoiled, etc? Then over the course of 15 years diagnosis of autism went from 3 to 11 per 100k......hmm........as diagnosis of differing levels of autism were made (including asperbers).

From your posts I'm getting that you think they're either just labeling kids so they can medicate them and get money or that they're just making up shit to shut up shitty parents. I think you've got it backwards......there's something going on with these kids and the docs are finally figuring out they're not just brats or spoiled or jerks.

That simply isn't the case. You can give all the evidence that aspergers does exist you want and that doesn't change the statistical FACT that diagnosis of various types of behavioral health problems have increased at a significant rate.

Hmm.........maybe because someone 20 years ago who would have been labeled "a little shit" is now properly classified as high-functioning autistic?

The teacher didn't send up a red flag, THEY are seeking it.

THEY are seeking it because there is something wrong with their kid. Diagnosing autism is a process...it's not like diabetes where you walk in and they take blood and you're done. It can take months to figure out exactly what's wrong. IMO they know he's autistic and have known for a while but they're SEEKING to figure out exactly what's going on and at what level.

[Ardentfrost]

And I think you're giving parents as a whole too much credit.

I'll give a little room in the increase due to previously unknown syndromes, but we're talking multiple factors of increase in a fairly short period of time. Nothing increases that fast without an unnatural reason.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

And I think you're giving parents as a whole too much credit.

I'll give a little room in the increase due to previously unknown syndromes, but we're talking multiple factors of increase in a fairly short period of time. Nothing increases that fast without an unnatural reason.

Case in point....25 years ago I had a blood test because there was "something wrong." The docs tested me for everything under the sun and ended up with a diagnosis of "well it's not leukemia so don't worry about it."

A few years ago I was having another test done and mentioned the original one. They tested me again and now I have Gilbert's Syndrome, a liver disorder that makes it hard to process bilirubin. It's completely benign...it's just "different."

But, 25 years ago I would not have been included on a list of people with a liver disorder. Today, because of different tests and different levels of tests available, I would.

You can believe parents are out there hoping their kids are autistic if you want. I respectfully and vehemently disagree, and even the study you posted halfway disagrees with you.

[Ardentfrost]

The study I posted says nothing about the want of people. I'm not even really saying it. Want has nothing to do with it. People say "my kid is acting like a dick" and instead of starting with "Maybe I'm doing something wrong" they start with "there must be something wrong with him."

People would rather a misdiagnosis occur than have to admit they have fucked up.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Trends in Diagnosis Rates for Autism and ADHD at Hospital Discharge in the Context of Other Psychiatric Diagnoses -- Mandell et al. 56 (1): 56 -- Psychiatr Serv

You can use Google too.
Something wrong with your kid? Let's just call it autism or ADHD or whatever else fits.

Once parents have an answer like this, they rarely get second opinions. It gives them a nice answer they can accept to ignore the problems of their child. It sucks most for those with REAL problems.

There's a huge difference between ADHD and autism

I'd agree that ADHD is overdiagnosed these days, and people are too quick to put their kids on medication for it, but that's so completely different than autism that I can't believe you'd make such a ridiculous comparison

And of course diagnostic standards will change over time as new information becomes available.. That's called science.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

ADHD is not Autism. It's not even similar.

I'm not even sure why you brought ADHD into the discussion here, Ardent. It's not relevant at all.

[thewise1]

Originally Posted by jimeigh

come to think of it i have a case of this even closer to home. my cousin's baby daughter is autistic, but they caught it young so they've already started therapy. they recently made for her a doll that's about her size so that she can improve her people-skills by interacting with the doll as though it were a person.

Maybe this is a stupid question, but wouldn't that make the problem worse? If they don't understand they are pissing people off with shitty behavior, seems like that's backwards, since it doesn't get pissed off at their behavior

[motivez]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

It was compared in the study I posted earlier, it's why I brought it up.

They compared diagnostic rates, not the diseases.. so your comparison is, again, irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

If everyone who acts like a dick has ass-burgers, then there's a pandemic.

ass-burgers?

No one is claiming that everyone who "acts like a dick" has it.

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by motivez

They compared diagnostic rates, not the diseases.. so your comparison is, again, irrelevant.

The relevance is the similarity in increase in two unrelated behavioral problems. If ANOVA comes back with similar increases, then misdiagnosis for both are likewise similar. I don't have raw info, so I can't do the ANOVA myself, but the study I linked compared the two and said they are similar.

So, yes, it is VERY relevant.

ass-burgers?

No one is claiming that everyone who "acts like a dick" has it.

1. Grow a sense of humor. You and the others.
2. "acting like a dick" is the symptom I'm assuming made the parents in the OP want to have their kid checked. I assume it b/c it's the apparent stigma for the teacher's actions (whether those actions were morally wrong or not).

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

1. Grow a sense of humor. You and the others.
2. "acting like a dick" is the symptom I'm assuming made the parents in the OP want to have their kid checked. I assume it b/c it's the apparent stigma for the teacher's actions (whether those actions were morally wrong or not).

This is like making fun of people with mental retardation. Do you suppose those parents just want their kids classified as being retarded so they can feel better about themselves as parents?

Sorry Ardent, but I'm gonna have to join in on everyone else and say you're dead wrong here. Aspergers is not something to be taken lightly. Just because it's classified as "high functioning" autism doesn't mean they are "high functioning" at all. It just means for an autistic person they do better than most, but in the end they're still autistic. Many people with aspergers can't drive, most can't even ride a bike. Usually tricycles can be managed with practice. They often fall behind in school. Upon completing high school college is often out the question and they'll continue to need in home care. Getting through high school with aspergers is extremely difficult because they often fall behind and become social outcasts.

This is not something you can write off as a bad kid whose parents just want a classification to feel better about themselves. If this child does seem to have aspergers as his parents think he does, that opinion most likely comes from professionals who have more expertise in classifying psychological disorders than someone who searches Google looking for evidence of over-classifcation.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

The relevance is the similarity in increase in two unrelated behavioral problems. If ANOVA comes back with similar increases, then misdiagnosis for both are likewise similar. I don't have raw info, so I can't do the ANOVA myself, but the study I linked compared the two and said they are similar.

So, yes, it is VERY relevant.

ADHD is not the same as Autism. You can't compare the two. The study you linked doesn't try, and as 7960 pointed out, it doesn't really agree with the theory you've put forward here, that this kid and most who are diagnosed with it are just brats, the doctors are too stupid to tell the difference, and the parents are too stupid to know the difference between a behavior issue and a permanent disability.

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

The relevance is the similarity in increase in two unrelated behavioral problems. If ANOVA comes back with similar increases, then misdiagnosis for both are likewise similar. I don't have raw info, so I can't do the ANOVA myself, but the study I linked compared the two and said they are similar.

So, yes, it is VERY relevant.




1. Grow a sense of humor. You and the others.
2. "acting like a dick" is the symptom I'm assuming made the parents in the OP want to have their kid checked. I assume it b/c it's the apparent stigma for the teacher's actions (whether those actions were morally wrong or not).

The disorders themselves have nothing whatsoever in common. The only similarity is that they are both being diagnosed more now tham they were before. We also drive more then we did 20 years ago. The simple fact that there is an increase in something doesn't mean it's related in any meaningful way. You know, quite obvisously, zero about either condition and yet you say that they are related and continue to lump them together.

Please educate yourself

Read this:
Autism-Symptoms

Then read this:
Symptoms of ADHD

Then come back once you have some clue what you are talking about.