Kindergarten teacher allows students to vote unpopular kid out of class.

[motivez]

It's precisely because ADHD is a very different type of condition than Autism

And, you've assumed that the increase in diagnoses is a result of an increase in misdiagnoses.

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by motivez

It's precisely because ADHD is a very different type of condition than Autism

And, you've assumed that the increase in diagnoses is a result of an increase in misdiagnoses.

The statistics suggest that. We agree the increase in ADHD diagnoses can be attributed to misdiagnosis. Autism diagnosis has increased similarly.

Connect
the
dots.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

Why do you people keeping equating ADHD with Autism? They aren't even related. ADHD has nothing to do with this discussion.

I didn't equate the two.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

The statistics suggest that. We agree the increase in ADHD diagnoses can be attributed to misdiagnosis. Autism diagnosis has increased similarly.

Connect
the
dots.

The statistics suggest it to whom?

You're continue to equate Autism and ADHD and before said it was diagnosed by the same people. This isn't necessarily true. Typical autism diagnosis and treatment comes from people who specialize in autism. Your example is like saying sleep disorders and brain cancer are linked because they both have increased and they're both diagnosed by brain doctors. And since the statistics have increased we can automatically assume it's because doctors are misdiagnosing brain cancer more often now.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

OMG really? You mean you have discovered the imbalance that causes AUtism?! This is quite a breakthrough! Especially since it flys in the face of everything that we know about Autism so far.
Autism Society of America: What Causes Autism

You will win the nobel prize for this!!

There is a chemical imbalance associated with all disorders that are treated by psychiatrists (physicians) in lieu of psychologists (therapists).

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by JaJae

What? High functioning has to do with their social and cognitive abilities in relation to normal autism.

"High functioning," in this case, is being grossly misused (as high functionality is definitively gauged by the individual's ability to function within society without the use of medication (per GAF) since individuals with functionality below "high levels" would obviously require medication).

Asperger's is not a form of "high functioning autism" as the article states, and as some of you seem to be defending. It's a type of communication disorder and pervasive development disorder that is to be viewed as completely separate from autism. In contrast to autism, children with Asperger's Disorder do not have difficulty with early primary language acquisition nor are there noticeable symptoms of it during infancy (including young toddlers), including cognitive development and behavior. Autism, on the other hand, is definitively onset during infancy.

I don't think you understand what high functioning means in this case, nor do I think you have an generic understanding of aspergers.

Yeah, you really hit the nail on the head.

[motivez]

It's very different to diagnose autism than it is to diagnose adhd, an increase in diagnoses doesn't mean it's due to a mistake on the doctors part. You're making stuff up to fit your incorrect opinion, ie that most kids diagnosed with autism or aspergers are simply brats, and most doctors are too stupid to diagnose correctly, etc

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

The statistics suggest that. We agree the increase in ADHD diagnoses can be attributed to misdiagnosis. Autism diagnosis has increased similarly.

Connect
the
dots.

The median rate of Autistic Disorder in epidemiological studies is 5 cases per 10,000 individuals, with reported rates ranging from 2 to 20 cases per 10,000 individuals. It remains unclear whether the higher reported rates reflect differences in methodology or an increased frequency of the condition.
["Prevalence," pg 73, 299.00 Autistic Disorder, DSM-IV-TR]

Just figured I'd point out that the largest authority in American psychology disagrees with you.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

"High functioning," in this case, is being grossly misused (as high functionality is definitively gauged by the individual's ability to function within society without the use of medication (per GAF) since individuals with functionality below "high levels" would obviously require medication).

Asperger's is not a form of "high functioning autism" as the article states, and as some of you seem to be defending. It's a type of communication disorder and pervasive development disorder that is to be viewed as completely separate from autism. In contrast to autism, children with Asperger's Disorder do not have difficulty with early primary language acquisition nor are there noticeable symptoms of it during infancy (including young toddlers), including cognitive development and behavior. Autism, on the other hand, is definitively onset during infancy.


Yeah, you really hit the nail on the head.

How in the world can you claim Aspergers is to be viewed completely separate from autism? It sounds like you've looked up a little about autism and aspergers, but I don't think it was properly understood.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by JaJae

How in the world can you claim Aspergers is to be viewed completely separate from autism? It sounds like you've looked up a little about autism and aspergers, but I don't think it was properly understood.

It isn't a form of autism. You're mistaken. I noted the differences for you (which you're certainly welcome to attempt refutation). They are separate disorders with separate differential diagnoses (key word there being "differential" -- meaning: they are different).

Should we also consider Rett's to be a form of autism because of similar symptoms? Additionally, should we consider schizophrenia to be a type of delusional disorder since they also have similar symptoms?

Again, the more broad category here is Communication Disorder. Since they are also pervasive, they are classified as a Pervasive Development Disorders as well.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

It isn't a form of autism. You're mistaken. I noted the differences for you (which you're certainly welcome to attempt refutation). They are separate disorders with separate differential diagnoses (key word there being "differential" -- meaning: they are different).

Should we also consider Rett's to be a form of autism because of similar symptoms? Additionally, should we consider schizophrenia to be a type of delusional disorder since they also have similar symptoms?

Again, the more broad category here is Communication Disorder. Since they are also pervasive, they are classified as a Pervasive Development Disorders as well.

I am not mistaken. A great part of my degree was studying Aspergers. The truth is not much is known about Aspergers at this point. From what we do know it is very similar to autism. It is a common belief that people with Aspergers are autistic, however, they've somehow managed to maintain some social skills despite anyone knowing how or why. And it is believed that those social skills are what enables them to do as well as they do. This is why Aspergers is classified as an autism spectrum disorder (ASD) along with autism, Rett's and PDDNOS. And it's striking similarities is why it is often compared to and even referred to as a form of Autism within the psychological community. The DSMIV is not the perfect source to make your case, nor does it necessarily show just how linked these two disorders are. In fact, it is extremely common for people who would be considered to have Aspergers to be qualified as Autistic because they meet enough of the symptoms of Autism and thus by the rules of DSMIV they must be classified as autistic. To make matters worse, psychologists are constantly arguing over the classifications of each of these disorders and where to draw the line.

One thing that we take for granted is that Aspergers and Autism are somehow linked. We do not know how. And if someone has Aspergers they are quite often misdiagnosed or even correctly diagnosed with Autism (especially at early ages) because the two disorders are so strikingly similar. So to say they're completely different and start calling out Communication Disorders is just playing with semantics. Not only that, it certainly doesn't prove a case being made in this thread.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Bah. Figured I'd post this since I still have the DSM out.

In contrast to Autistic Disorder, there are no clinically significant delays or deviance in language acquisition (e.g., single non-echoed words are used communicatively by age 2 years, and spontaneous communicative phrases are used by age 3 years) (Criterion D), although more subtle aspects of social communication (e.g., typical give-and-take in conversation) may be affected. In addition, during the first 3 years of life, there are no clinically significant delays in cognitive development as manifested by expressing normal curiosity about the environment or in the acquisition of age-appropriate learning skills and adaptive behaviors (or than in social interaction) (Criterion E). Finally, the criteria are not met for another specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder or for Schizophrenia (Criterion F).
["Diagnostic Features," pg 80, 299.80 Asperger's Disorder, DSM-IV-TR]

So it's actually even more strict than I thought (e.g., I thought it was only early primary language acquisition that was unaffected, but the DSM says that all language acquisition is unaffected by the disorder).

And just for good measure:

By definition, the onset of Autistic Disorder is prior to age 3 years.
["Course," pg 73, 299.00 Autistic Disorder, DSM-IV-TR]

Look at all that "garbage!" (yeah, I saw your post before your edit ).

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by JaJae

I am not mistaken. A great part of my degree was studying Aspergers. The truth is not much is known about Aspergers at this point. From what we do know it is very similar to autism. It is a common belief that people with Aspergers are autistic, however, they've somehow managed to maintain some social skills despite anyone knowing how or why. And it is believed that those social skills are what enables them to do as well as they do. This is why Aspergers is classified as an autism spectrum disorder (ASD) along with autism, Rett's and PDDNOS. And it's striking similarities is why it is often compared to and even referred to as a form of Autism within the psychological community. The DSMIV is not the perfect source to make your case, nor does it necessarily show just how linked these two disorders are. In fact, it is extremely common for people who would be considered to have Aspergers to be qualified as Autistic because they meet enough of the symptoms of Autism and thus by the rules of DSMIV they must be classified as autistic. To make matters worse, psychologists are constantly arguing over the classifications of each of these disorders and where to draw the line.

One thing that we take for granted is that Aspergers and Autism are somehow linked. We do not know how. And if someone has Aspergers they are quite often misdiagnosed or even correctly diagnosed with Autism (especially at early ages) because the two disorders are so strikingly similar. So to say they're completely different and start calling out Communication Disorders is just playing with semantics. Not only that, it certainly doesn't prove a case being made in this thread.

Oh OK, so we've gone from "It is most definitely without a doubt a form of autism and you're wrong for spouting this garbage!" to "Well, some folks think that it might maybe perhaps be a type of autism but there is no agreement and I don't actually agree with the DSM so I don't think you should use it, despite the fact that it is the basis for diagnosing mental disorders in the United States."

Just want to make sure we're on the same page.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

Oh OK, so we've gone from "It is most definitely without a doubt a form of autism and you're wrong for spouting this garbage!" to "Well, some folks think that it might maybe perhaps be a type of autism but there is no agreement and I don't actually agree with the DSM so I don't think you should use it, despite the fact that it is the basis for diagnosing mental disorders in the United States."

Just want to make sure we're on the same page.

No, it is a form of autism by all practical intents and purposes. You're arguing syntax as if you defends your underlying point, which it doesn't. If you want to pull out the DSM (something you say you disagree with) it will say they are different disorders. If you talk to an actual psychologist they will tell you they are linked and Aspergers is a form autism. Regardless, it's irrelevant to your argument.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by JaJae

No, it is a form of autism by all practical intents and purposes. You're arguing syntax as if you defends your underlying point, which it doesn't. If you want to pull out the DSM (something you say you disagree with) it will say they are different disorders. If you talk to an actual psychologist they will tell you they are linked and Aspergers is a form of social autism. Regardless, it's irrelevant to your argument.

Where did I say I disagree with the DSM, and how is this irrelevant to my argument?

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

Where did I say I disagree with the DSM, and how is this irrelevant to my argument?

I misread your post above. But regardless, the way you classify choose to aspergers (whether it is a subsetting of autism or not) has nothing to do with the point of made up diagnosis to make parents feel better about themselves.

[avsp]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Depends on the symtoms of the case. SSRI's can be prescribed and those can do MAJOR damage.

AFAICT very very few Aspergers kids are given SSRI's.

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

"High functioning," in this case, is being grossly misused (as high functionality is definitively gauged by the individual's ability to function within society without the use of medication (per GAF) since individuals with functionality below "high levels" would obviously require medication).

Asperger's is not a form of "high functioning autism" as the article states, and as some of you seem to be defending. It's a type of communication disorder and pervasive development disorder that is to be viewed as completely separate from autism. In contrast to autism, children with Asperger's Disorder do not have difficulty with early primary language acquisition nor are there noticeable symptoms of it during infancy (including young toddlers), including cognitive development and behavior. Autism, on the other hand, is definitively onset during infancy.


Yeah, you really hit the nail on the head.

Whats being missed here is that Aspergers is a sliding scale kind of deal, just how 'high functioning' etc. I think very many people, (especially men), have Asperger-like tendancies, ..., but these are seen simply as behavioural quirkes, or 'personality'.

Its Autism-like & may be related in some form.

The language acquistion thing is misleading. Typically its the exact nuanced use of a word, the social context, tone of voice & body language etc that can escape the Asperger sufferer. They can however construct sentances demonstrating that they understand a words meaning & non-nuanced use.

Explanation of the apparently increased rates of autism & aspergers have included the MMR jab, which now seems largely discredited.

Personally I think increased cannabis use should be looked at
There may well be an epigentic effect going on relating to WW2, but I'm speculating here.

As for ADHD I wonder about the unmetabolised tranquilisers in the water.

I also suspect that there is an increase in over-diagnosis of behaviour oddities fuelled by many drivers.