Islam should be criticized - Page 3

ballz2wallz · 09-19-2006, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

The Pope didn't apologize for what he said. He apologized that they were offended.

Not quite the same thing.

IminWonderland · 09-19-2006, 04:24 PM

Ironically my Milton teacher discussed the issue of his quote today. He has a poor speech writer, because he didn't need the intial part of that quote to make his point. That, and he didn't set up his quote very well.

Poor guy has poor speech writing skillz....

SpicyMcVoodoo · 09-19-2006, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

I disagree. Criticism of Christianity is just as common as it ever was. Noone is afraid to do so. You see 'art' in the form of 'piss christ' or 'poo poo mary' (I don't know that that was the name, but it defines the 'art' correctly) and yet you hear complaints from Christians. No riots, killings, anything. In fact the state funds that art. Imagine what would happen if you smeared Mohammed's face in poo? A mere cartoon or movie or even quote from the Pope gets riots, fires, murders, etc. All hell would break loose if poop or pee was spread over something sacred to them. Christians are not silencing anyone, nor are they instilling fear into someone. Mulsims are certainly having an effect. They have the Pope apologizing multiple times. Did anybody apologize about piss christ?

I don't know whether anyone ever received death threats for piss christ. I imagine they did, but even if they didn't, it's an anomaly. People receive and have received death threats for far less. Like I said, Michael Newdow got plenty of death threats, and the first openly-gay Anglican Bishop is under 24-hour FBI protection. And of course, I haven't yet mentioned the countless death threats given to abortion doctors, and the people that Christians have maimed or killed because of abortion.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...52Fwbish27.xml

You've got your head in the sand if you don't think Christians regularly threaten those with death who offend their religious sensibilities. If you care to find the harsh reality of it all, play with google a bit and you'll find htousands of references to Christian death threats.
There is most certainly an atmosphere of intimidation.

ballz2wallz · 09-19-2006, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

I don't know whether anyone ever received death threats for piss christ. I imagine they did, but even if they didn't, it's an anomaly. People receive and have received death threats for far less. Like I said, Michael Newdow got plenty of death threats, and the first openly-gay Anglican Bishop is under 24-hour FBI protection. And of course, I haven't yet mentioned the countless death threats given to abortion doctors, and the people that Christians have maimed or killed because of abortion.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...52Fwbish27.xml

You've got your head in the sand if you don't think Christians regularly threaten those with death who offend their religious sensibilities. If you care to find the harsh reality of it all, play with google a bit and you'll find htousands of references to Christian death threats.
There is most certainly an atmosphere of intimidation.

I'm not denying it hasn't happened. I do disagree that the world responds to it like they do muslim death threats.

SpicyMcVoodoo · 09-19-2006, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

I'm not denying it hasn't happened. I do disagree that the world responds to it like they do muslim death threats.

Okay, so you're saying somehow Christian death threats are less intimidating than Muslim death threats, even though, for Americans, the Christians live right next door and the Muslims are a world away?

ballz2wallz · 09-19-2006, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Okay, so you're saying somehow Christian death threats are less intimidating than Muslim death threats, even though, for Americans, the Christians live right next door and the Muslims are a world away?

Absolutely.

Scrum · 09-19-2006, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Absolutely.

Av Check

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lew · 09-19-2006, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

A cartoon isn't a movie. He claimed they made death threats and followed through over the cartoon. That's incorrect.

Not actually. I didn't clearly bet my point across. My point wasn't that they made death threats and then killed those exact individuals - it's that they made death threats and then actually rioted, burned, etc (acted upon) those threats.

Christians may send death threats but that's it. They not only don't kill the people, but they also don't riot, burn buildings down, etc.

lew · 09-19-2006, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

The Pope didn't apologize for what he said. He apologized that they were offended.

Not quite the same thing.

Who cares? He shouldn't apologize for anything. And now these Muslim clerics are declaring that it's the Pope's fault that these riots are taking place.

They sound like Democrats. No personal responsibility.

lew · 09-19-2006, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

I don't know whether anyone ever received death threats for piss christ. I imagine they did, but even if they didn't, it's an anomaly. People receive and have received death threats for far less. Like I said, Michael Newdow got plenty of death threats, and the first openly-gay Anglican Bishop is under 24-hour FBI protection. And of course, I haven't yet mentioned the countless death threats given to abortion doctors, and the people that Christians have maimed or killed because of abortion.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...52Fwbish27.xml

You've got your head in the sand if you don't think Christians regularly threaten those with death who offend their religious sensibilities. If you care to find the harsh reality of it all, play with google a bit and you'll find htousands of references to Christian death threats.
There is most certainly an atmosphere of intimidation.

Abortion is the one exception. Why? Because if you understand their views, an abortion doctor is a mass murderer. So yeah, it's their obligation to take those people out.

Anything else, you don't have Christians killing anybody over or rioting or anything.

lew · 09-19-2006, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Okay, so you're saying somehow Christian death threats are less intimidating than Muslim death threats, even though, for Americans, the Christians live right next door and the Muslims are a world away?

Exactly. Why? BECAUSE CHRISTIANS DON'T FOLLOW THROUGH.

zomg, this is so hard to comprehend

ballz2wallz · 09-19-2006, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by lew

Who cares? He shouldn't apologize for anything. And now these Muslim clerics are declaring that it's the Pope's fault that these riots are taking place. They sound like Democrats. No personal responsibility.

And they're calling for his execution

ballz2wallz · 09-19-2006, 08:23 PM

They're saying Christians are the only group of people...the only religion...that is fair game to mock, make fun of, and trash their sacred symbols without any remorse, fear of discipline, or fear of retribution.

How appropriate.

He brings up some good examples...everyone should listen. Madonna hanging from a cross is one, whereas many people refused to publish the Mohammed cartoons for 'fear of offending muslims'.

SpicyMcVoodoo · 09-20-2006, 02:20 AM

Originally Posted by lew

Exactly. Why? BECAUSE CHRISTIANS DON'T FOLLOW THROUGH.

zomg, this is so hard to comprehend

You've got to be fucking kidding me...so when someone receives a death threat for offending Christians, he's not intimidated into silence because Christians don't normally follow through?

Well, good for you...maybe you've got balls of steal, but most people are intimidated by death threats, regardless of the history of the people issuing them.

SpicyMcVoodoo · 09-20-2006, 02:24 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

They're saying Christians are the only group of people...the only religion...that is fair game to mock, make fun of, and trash their sacred symbols without any remorse, fear of discipline, or fear of retribution. How appropriate.

He brings up some good examples...everyone should listen. Madonna hanging from a cross is one, whereas many people refused to publish the Mohammed cartoons for 'fear of offending muslims'.

You're completely out of touch with reality. You and the O'Reilly crew love to claim Christianity is under attack, and the attackers operate with impunity. The reality is far different, and I've shown you two great examples with Newdow and the gay Anglican Bishop under 24 hour protection.

If you publically offend Christian sensibilities, you'll be threatened with death, boycotted, etc. That most times Christians don't follow through with murder doesn't change that there is a culture of intimidation for those who offend Christians. Critizing Christians in America doesn't get a pass...it gets you death threats and public ire. Sorry to break the illusion of victimization the religious right holds so dearly.

Kytro · 09-20-2006, 05:56 AM

There are plenty of things about religions that should be criticised, and Islam is no execption. Blaming the religion for the fact that it's followers tend to be violent and fundamentalist is not really that sueful.

It's a problem, but it's not because that is the way the religion is more than it is the culture.

The problem with religion is it is fundamentally allows fantasies.

lew · 09-20-2006, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

You're completely out of touch with reality. You and the O'Reilly crew love to claim Christianity is under attack, and the attackers operate with impunity. The reality is far different, and I've shown you two great examples with Newdow and the gay Anglican Bishop under 24 hour protection.

If you publically offend Christian sensibilities, you'll be threatened with death, boycotted, etc. That most times Christians don't follow through with murder doesn't change that there is a culture of intimidation for those who offend Christians. Critizing Christians in America doesn't get a pass...it gets you death threats and public ire. Sorry to break the illusion of victimization the religious right holds so dearly.

Right. Because when Hollywood makes anti-Christian films again and again, we rise up as one and send death threats and riot, etc. Except, we don't.

And you're equating boycotting with death threats?

Boycotting is a perfectly acceptable form of protest against corporations that promote things you don't like.

And you only name 2 examples? Out of the dozens of examples of Muslims that are available? And again, neither one of the two examples has gotten hurt. They may have gotten death threats, but that's it. And btw, I looked up the Anglican Bishop and can only find out about his 24 hour fbi watch on gay websites. I could find no record of it on any legit news source.

ballz2wallz · 09-20-2006, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

The reality is far different, and I've shown you two great examples with Newdow and the gay Anglican Bishop under 24 hour protection.

No, you claim they are under protection, but I've never heard such things. Link or lie.

DosEquis · 09-20-2006, 11:43 AM

I think all religion needs to be criticized for the followers hypocrisy. I am so sick of people trying to act something they are not and only following the belief system when it is convenient....but then belittle those who are "non believers". I am sick of them saying they are non-profit and then building 50 million dollar buildings. Have of the f-ing places are just a fashion show where people can go test their new suit in public.

SpicyMcVoodoo · 09-20-2006, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

No, you claim they are under protection, but I've never heard such things. Link or lie.

I didn't say THEY were under protection. I said the Bishop was. Here's your link:

Telegraph | News | Gay bishop kept under 24-hour FBI guard