Islam should be criticized

SpicyMcVoodoo · 09-18-2006, 10:47 PM

along with Christianity, Judaism and every other religion. Ballz was right in his other thread. It's unacceptable to be intimidated into silence regarding Islam, but it's equally unacceptable to be intimidated into silence regarding Christianity. If I went on TV tomorrow and started criticizing Christians, I guarantee I'd get death threats sooner or later. We also live in a climate where merely not being Christian is political suicide, let alone affirmatively criticizing it.

Humanity has a severe problem-- that millions believe they know what god wants, everyone else is going to hell, and they cannot be told differently. How such a backward, superstitious, unreasonable belief system can lead to violence is no surprise.

But we should be careful to not have double standards...sure, criticize Muslims first and foremost, because they're doing most of the killing today, but also criticize other religions, because their beliefs share the same root cause, and have proven their propensity toward violence throughout history.

Unfortunately, if a Christian criticizes Muslims, he gets no where because he's just being a shill for his religion and promoting a religious war, and because America ostracizes atheists/agnostics, there is no one left in the public eye to fairly and objectively criticize Islam.

lew · 09-18-2006, 10:50 PM

People criticize Christians all the time. We do not send out death threats. If we did, Hollywood wouldn't exist.

Scrum · 09-19-2006, 12:31 AM

Everyone and everything should be criticized and questioned.

Just my opinion though.....

SpicyMcVoodoo · 09-19-2006, 12:42 AM

Originally Posted by lew

People criticize Christians all the time. We do not send out death threats. If we did, Hollywood wouldn't exist.

Michael Newdow got more death threats than he knows what to do with, all for challenging the government's ability to force his daughter to say "God" every morning...and he wasn't even criticizing Chrstianity itself, only the government's ability to force it on his daughter.

And when do people publically criticize Christianity? They might criticize individual Christians like Falwell or some interpretation of Christianity, but very few people publically call Christianity a fraud.

IminWonderland · 09-19-2006, 01:43 AM

Originally Posted by lew

People criticize Christians all the time. We do not send out death threats. If we did, Hollywood wouldn't exist.

People who break sacred Christian rules get death threats.....so do people who advocate for laws that are against what Christians believe.

Diamond Cross · 09-19-2006, 02:21 AM

Originally Posted by lew

People criticize Christians all the time. We do not send out death threats. If we did, Hollywood wouldn't exist.

Yeah. It's not like you want to ban Harry Potter books or boycott Disney for their homosexual-friendly policies or are trying to ban because it does not support evolution.

Oh wait. You people send death threats to abortinists.

Never mind.

ballz2wallz · 09-19-2006, 06:14 AM

I don't think that's anything to worry about. People have openly criticized Christianity in this country for a looong time. There is hardly a risk of anyone backing down from that.

OTOH, there are cases all over where peoples and governments attempt to pacify muslims. Take the British prison systems for example; they literally remodeled the prison systems so they didn't have the toilets facing in the direction they pray...they didn't want to pee that way; they claimed it was against their religion. That idea is preposterous. I believe the same is true at Gitmo.

avsp · 09-19-2006, 09:23 AM

It is neither helpfull nor meaningfull to see any of these words, (Islam, Christianity etc) as characterising a monolithic, indivisible interpretation of the various texts.

schisms, popular judean peoples front etc

ballz2wallz · 09-19-2006, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by avsp

It is neither helpfull nor meaningfull to see any of these words, (Islam, Christianity etc) as characterising a monolithic, indivisible interpretation of the various texts.

The issue is not necessarily criticizing those who believe in religions at all, but merely criticizing those cultures and ways of life that are incompatible with today's world using a claimed belief as an excuse. Every other religion is compatible it seems with today's society, except for that of Islam. They want to rewind the world into a medieval way of life; by medieval I don't necessarily mean with swords and knives in warfare (or maybe they do

) but by the culture of living, etc. It's just not conducive to their existence in an industrialized, technological world.

Dumpy Dooby · 09-19-2006, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

I don't think that's anything to worry about. People have openly criticized Christianity in this country for a looong time. There is hardly a risk of anyone backing down from that.

It would be incorrect for one to say that there are not Christians that send death threats to individuals that express unChristian beliefs.

OTOH, there are cases all over where peoples and governments attempt to pacify muslims. Take the British prison systems for example; they literally remodeled the prison systems so they didn't have the toilets facing in the direction they pray...they didn't want to pee that way; they claimed it was against their religion. That idea is preposterous. I believe the same is true at Gitmo.

That's preposterous to you ... but that's because your religion doesn't call for not peeing the direction you pray (or whatever). That's the thing about Christianity, they don't have a particular manner in which one needs to pray. However, if you were somehow limited and constrained to the point where you feel that you are not praying to your God properly (don't try to rationalize this, it's a hypothetical ... assume you can't pray to God properly; assume that he would condemn you for the way that you are praying to him), you wouldn't think it's as proposterous.

I, personally, don't think the British should have had to remodel their prison systems, but that's more because I think religions should adhere to the individual advocate's environment, rather than defining the way the individual's environment ought to be.

lew · 09-19-2006, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Michael Newdow got more death threats than he knows what to do with, all for challenging the government's ability to force his daughter to say "God" every morning...and he wasn't even criticizing Chrstianity itself, only the government's ability to force it on his daughter.

And when do people publically criticize Christianity? They might criticize individual Christians like Falwell or some interpretation of Christianity, but very few people publically call Christianity a fraud.

You misunderstand me. Sometimes, some "Christians" send out death threaths to various people - the difference is we don't actually kill them. Muslim extremists do. Christian extremists don't.

lew · 09-19-2006, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

Yeah. It's not like you want to ban Harry Potter books or boycott Disney for their homosexual-friendly policies or are trying to ban because it does not support evolution.

Oh wait. You people send death threats to abortinists.

Never mind.

Banning Harry Porter, boycotting Disney, etc are not death threats.

Death threats to abortionists are akin to executing mass murderers. (If you agree with their point of view, obviously)

Meanwhile, Muslims send death threats and then actually follow through to people for PRINTING CARTOONS. If you can't see the difference, then

Dumpy Dooby · 09-19-2006, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by lew

You misunderstand me. Sometimes, some "Christians" send out death threaths to various people - the difference is we don't actually kill them. Muslim extremists do. Christian extremists don't.

Correction: American Christians don't.

The Jewish extremists in Israel have suicide bombers that attack the Muslim communities, just like how the Muslim extremists in that area have their suicide bombers. The Christian extremists in America don't follow through with their death threats, just like how the Muslim extremists in America don't follow through with their death threats. I'd say in proportion to the population, you'd probably find an equal amount on both sides.

But if you want an example of Christians that "actually kill them," then you need to look no further than the IRA.

ballz2wallz · 09-19-2006, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

It would be incorrect for one to say that there are not Christians that send death threats to individuals that express unChristian beliefs.

Certainly, but it's not a common theme, nor do they often act on those threats. Nor are they really accepted to the Christian religion. OTOH, it seems more accepted and certainly more common (and acted upon) in nearly every country by many muslims. Even in the US. Certainly you can see a clear distinction between the two religions and those who practice them?

lew · 09-19-2006, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

Correction: American Christians don't.

The Jewish extremists in Israel have suicide bombers that attack the Muslim communities, just like how the Muslim extremists in that area have their suicide bombers. The Christian extremists in America don't follow through with their death threats, just like how the Muslim extremists in America don't follow through with their death threats. I'd say in proportion to the population, you'd probably find an equal amount on both sides.

But if you want an example of Christians that "actually kill them," then you need to look no further than the IRA.

I like the IRA.

The difference is, the Christians were guilty of these sins hundreds of years ago. We've evolved since then. We no longer carry out a world-wide jihad. The Muslims still do. They need to get out of the Middle Ages.

Dumpy Dooby · 09-19-2006, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by lew

The difference is, the Christians were guilty of these sins hundreds of years ago. We've evolved since then.

Most of the Christians have, anyway. But there's still Army Of God, Lord's Resistance Army, Westboro Baptist Church (mostly just little shitheads that piss people off ... I'm sure you saw the crazy bitch on H&C), Ku Klux Klan (targeted non-Protestants), and, of course, Christian Identity (a collection of a few dozen smaller Christian terrorist groups).

We no longer carry out a world-wide jihad. The Muslims still do. They need to get out of the Middle Ages.

I wholeheartedly agree, as long as we're talking about Muslims in the middle east ... where EVERYONE (not just Muslims) is stuck in the Middle Ages.

ballz2wallz · 09-19-2006, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

The Jewish extremists in Israel have suicide bombers that attack the Muslim communities,

They do?

The Christian extremists in America don't follow through with their death threats, just like how the Muslim extremists in America don't follow through with their death threats.

FOXNews.com - Family, Friends Mourn Slain N.J. Family - U.S. & World

Dumpy Dooby · 09-19-2006, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Certainly, but it's not a common theme, nor do they often act on those threats.

It depends on location and which group is making the threat. There are plenty that would follow through after making it.

Nor are they really accepted to the Christian religion.

Guy A: No Scotsman puts sugar in his porridge.
Guy B: But my uncle puts sugar in his porridge, and he's a Scotsman.
Guy A: Ahh, but no TRUE Scotsman puts sugar in his porridge.

OTOH, it seems more accepted and certainly more common (and acted upon) in nearly every country by many muslims. Even in the US. Certainly you can see a clear distinction between the two religions and those who practice them?

I do. The Muslim nations tend to be rather archaic. Like I said in a previous thread, Christianity was just like this a few hundred years ago (btw, during that time, the Islamic people were leading the world in science and technology). Islam became backwards and is stuck in the past now. Once they become a bit more civilized, there won't be issues like this.

ballz2wallz · 09-19-2006, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

Once they become a bit more civilized, there won't be issues like this.

And that, I believe, is the ultimate goal of the 'war on terror'.

Dumpy Dooby · 09-19-2006, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

They do?

Yes, I can get you a video if you prefer.

FOXNews.com - Family, Friends Mourn Slain N.J. Family - U.S. & World

That's brilliant. One example. Of course there's going to be one. Probably twenty, actually. Should I go mining for news articles and provide you with articles regarding Christians that have followed through with it as well? We can turn this into a Google fight. Note that I also listed a few Christian terrorist groups that exist today, or have existed within the last century. Most of which actually do follow through with their threats.