military and gays - Page 2

IminWonderland · 09-19-2006, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

the military is not a place for social experimentation. Openly gay service members would hurt unit cohesion and that is unacceptable. Maybe when society changes in 10-20 years we can reverse this, but the military is just a reflection of society's values.

It's not a social experiment because gay men are nothing new. You don't think Roman soldiers had a gay percentage? Do you really think that this is just now?

JaJae · 09-19-2006, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

It's not a social experiment because gay men are nothing new. You don't think Roman soldiers had a gay percentage? Do you really think that this is just now?

We're not the Romans.

IminWonderland · 09-19-2006, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

Them colored boys are hurting our units cohesion.

To me these two issues are the same.

Gay men do not have more sexual desire than straight men.

IminWonderland · 09-19-2006, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

We're not the Romans.

Well, what army can we compare it to? Do you really think that this is some kind of new issue, that suddenly gays want to be in the military? They have always been in the military, but superiors just never knew. And it shouldn't matter if they are gay or not.

It's discriminiation, and if this government still wants a volunteer armed force, then they should take who they can get, even if they like butthole.

Where is it been shown that a gay soldier can't perform as well as a straight one? Because if this is all about making straight soldiers "comfortable", I can think of several other issues where the freedom of speech or expression is more valuble than people who get offended.

ballz2wallz · 09-19-2006, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

It's not a social experiment because gay men are nothing new. You don't think Roman soldiers had a gay percentage? Do you really think that this is just now?

Yeah, compare us to a failed rule. We should really try to learn from the past.

Scrum · 09-19-2006, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Yeah, compare us to a failed rule. We should really try to learn from the past.

And you think their failed empire had to do with gays in the military?

ballz2wallz · 09-19-2006, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

And you think their failed empire had to do with gays in the military?

It had to do with many things.

Scrum · 09-19-2006, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

It had to do with many things.

Did it have to do with gays in the military?

ballz2wallz · 09-19-2006, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

Did it have to do with gays in the military?

Some will attribute part of their problem to moral corruption. I tend to agree with that. Whether or not you consider that 'moral corruption' is up to you.

Scrum · 09-19-2006, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Some will attribute part of their problem to moral corruption. I tend to agree with that. Whether or not you consider that 'moral corruption' is up to you.

A simple yes or no will do.

Actually I think their biggest problem was lead.

JaJae · 09-19-2006, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

Well, what army can we compare it to? Do you really think that this is some kind of new issue, that suddenly gays want to be in the military? They have always been in the military, but superiors just never knew. And it shouldn't matter if they are gay or not.

It's discriminiation, and if this government still wants a volunteer armed force, then they should take who they can get, even if they like butthole.

Where is it been shown that a gay soldier can't perform as well as a straight one? Because if this is all about making straight soldiers "comfortable", I can think of several other issues where the freedom of speech or expression is more valuble than people who get offended.

You can't compare it to any other military, because those militaries aren't us. Every military that introduces gays into a society that is not fully open to them is going to cause problems.

Nobody says a gay soldier can't perform their duties as well. And in time I'm sure it will no longer be an issue just like blacks. But in the meantime gays will cause problems as kinggovernor said. A lot of people who join the military are conservative. In fact, I'd say the vast majority of people who join the military are conservative. AKA - vote republican, pro capital punishment, anti -gun control, lower taxes, pro-military, anti-welfare, personal responsibility is a huge part of their lives, etc etc.

Thorgrim · 09-19-2006, 01:55 PM

So, a black former gang member being assigned next to a redneck is ok...extremely beautiful woman being assigned next to a 18 year old guy with raging horomone levels is ok...a neo-nazi being assigned next to a jewish soldier is fine...a fervent communist who never shuts up about it is assigned next to a conservative is fine...but having a shy lesbian who doesn't sexually harrass anyone assigned next to another woman is out of the question.

I'm not following any sort of logic here, except the logic of discrimination and hate

Ardentfrost · 09-19-2006, 02:00 PM

The fact that this stuff is getting talked about is only propagating sympathy for the homosexuals. I laugh when people take public stances against t3h gheys, and especially bash them or say stupid things about them. All it does is make more and more people realize that the people are being discriminated against, which most people don't want.

I think it's silly that the military isn't letting gays in and forcing those that are in to stay quiet about it, but all it's doing is getting us closer and closer to a more tolerant society.

Thorgrim · 09-19-2006, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

The fact that this stuff is getting talked about is only propagating sympathy for the homosexuals. I laugh when people take public stances against t3h gheys, and especially bash them or say stupid things about them. All it does is make more and more people realize that the people are being discriminated against, which most people don't want.

I think it's silly that the military isn't letting gays in and forcing those that are in to stay quiet about it, but all it's doing is getting us closer and closer to a more tolerant society.

Probably the biggest change in America since the early 90s was the rampant homophobia that existed for hundreds of years changed in a decade, why? Because of the rise of the Christian Coalition

Once everyone had to make a big deal out of being gay, the average American saw homosexuals and went "they don't look like evil and wicked people to me..."

Same thing with same sex marriage in MA, they were talking like it was going to be the end of the world...then it happened and all these normal people (more so than the straight ppl that get married in Vegas) being gay and getting married and thought "ya know, it really didn't destroy civilization"

Is this a huge issue in MA? No, it completely died down because after it happened no one cared

DosEquis · 09-19-2006, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

You can't compare it to any other military, because those militaries aren't us. Every military that introduces gays into a society that is not fully open to them is going to cause problems.

Nobody says a gay soldier can't perform their duties as well. And in time I'm sure it will no longer be an issue just like blacks. But in the meantime gays will cause problems as kinggovernor said. A lot of people who join the military are conservative. In fact, I'd say the vast majority of people who join the military are conservative. AKA - vote republican, pro capital punishment, anti -gun control, lower taxes, pro-military, anti-welfare, personal responsibility is a huge part of their lives, etc etc.

The gay people are not the problem. It is the homophobes like b2w who would not shower next to them because they might look at his pecker or his ass with admiration. Their insecurity creates the problem and their insecurity fucks with the cohesion.

I would also disagree that the vast majority in the military are conservative republicans. I think a good portion of those in the military had limited options in their city or neighborhood and needed a way out. Not that it was their only motivation to serve, but it is usually a substantial reason. Whether it was high unemployment in the area, difficulty with school, whatever. Those in the urban areas such as that tend to vote more liberal.

JaJae · 09-19-2006, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by DosEquis

The gay people are not the problem. It is the homophobes like b2w who would not shower next to them because they might look at his pecker or his ass with admiration. Their insecurity creates the problem and their insecurity fucks with the cohesion.

I would also disagree that the vast majority in the military are conservative republicans. I think a good portion of those in the military had limited options in their city or neighborhood and needed a way out. Not that it was their only motivation to serve, but it is usually a substantial reason. Whether it was high unemployment in the area, difficulty with school, whatever. Those in the urban areas such as that tend to vote more liberal.

What military would you rather have right now.. the "homophobes" or the "gays". If it were one or the other, which group would you prefer to be defending our soldiers and our interests?

Gays in the military, especially the infantry ranks would cause many problems for the "homophobes" who serverely outnumber the number of gays who wish to join.

Thorgrim · 09-19-2006, 02:20 PM

What military would you rather have now...the "whites" or the "blacks". If it were oen or the other, which group would you prefer to be defending our solldiers and our interests?

Blacks in the military, especially the infantry ranks would cause many problems for the "whites" who severely outnumber the number of blacks who wish to join

JaJae · 09-19-2006, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

What military would you rather have now...the "whites" or the "blacks". If it were oen or the other, which group would you prefer to be defending our solldiers and our interests?

Blacks in the military, especially the infantry ranks would cause many problems for the "whites" who severely outnumber the number of blacks who wish to join

The blacks are already integrated. We're currently in a war abroad. Blacks were also segregated for some time before they were fully integrated.

The issue isn't whether or not gays can be integrated, it's an issue of is now the right time.

Thorgrim · 09-19-2006, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

The blacks are already integrated. We're currently in a war abroad. Blacks were also segregated for some time before they were fully integrated.

The issue isn't whether or not gays can be integrated, it's an issue of is now the right time.

Gays are already integrated. We're currently in a war abroad. Gays are just currently discharged if they are found out.

The issue isn't whether or not gays can be integrated, its an issue of how long we can delay it.

six6ftr · 09-19-2006, 02:31 PM

It is interesting how everyone is talking about the gays in the military like they are open about it and waving flags while serving. The majority of the gay population from what I see are very low key. You can easily make assumptions about their sexual orientation but very few will speak up on their own.