military and gays - Page 5

Ardentfrost · 09-19-2006, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Either way, I still stand by my claim.

Which is?

CrackSeed · 09-19-2006, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Oh you're right...let me find it.

HIV rate for gay men rises, CDC says

That's the best I can find, but by using logic, if the majority of HIV cases are by gays as the article claims, that means there is most certainly a higher percentage of gays that are infected with HIV than blacks, considering there are likely to be more blacks than there are gays in the US. As crackseed said, it's probably hard to know the exact number of gays in the US...it's hard to find an exact number.

...but black and gay are not mutually exclusive.

The majority of HIV cases are gays AND the majority of HIV cases are blacks.

CrackSeed · 09-19-2006, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Did you even read it? It gives more modern numbers of how many aids/hiv patients there are, addresses how many are black, the percentage that got it through hetero and homo relationships, etc...

I missed the part that mentioned the percentage of gays who are infected. Could you point that out, please?

ballz2wallz · 09-19-2006, 04:31 PM

According to this link, there are 2,000,000 gay men in the country:

Composite U.S. Demographics

From the other links, if 44% of the HIV cases are from gays out of total of 1,300,000 (I'll use the high number) that leaves 572,000 are gay. Of 2,000,000 gays in the US, that's a whopping 25% of gays are HIV positive.

ballz2wallz · 09-19-2006, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Which is?

http://www.libertylounge.net/forums/35594-post68.html

Ardentfrost · 09-19-2006, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by CrackSeed

I missed the part that mentioned the percentage of gays who are infected. Could you point that out, please?

Lol, you're turning my point back on me? I never claimed to have those numbers, I just said that ballz used numbers from 4 or 5 years ago, whereas my link was from last year.

ballz2wallz · 09-19-2006, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by CrackSeed

...but black and gay are not mutually exclusive.

The majority of HIV cases are gays AND the majority of HIV cases are blacks.

I know. There are obviously black gays.

ballz2wallz · 09-19-2006, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Lol, you're turning my point back on me? I never claimed to have those numbers, I just said that ballz used numbers from 4 or 5 years ago, whereas my link was from last year.

They obviously don't do these studies every year

Ardentfrost · 09-19-2006, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

According to this link, there are 2,000,000 gay men in the country:

Composite U.S. Demographics

From the other links, if 44% of the HIV cases are from gays out of total of 1,300,000 (I'll use the high number) that leaves 572,000 are gay. Of 2,000,000 gays in the US, that's a whopping 25% of gays are HIV positive.

It says gay and bisexual though

Ardentfrost · 09-19-2006, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

What's the difference. They are sticking their things in a dude's butt.

Yeah, but you got a number of gays... can you get a number of people who have a homosexual experience? That would make your numbers actually correct I think.

kinggovernor · 09-19-2006, 04:42 PM

"Homosexuality is incompatible with military service. The presence in the military environment of persons who engage in homosexual conduct or who, by their statements, demonstrate a propensity to engage in homosexual conduct, seriously impairs the accomplishment of the military mission. The presence of such members adversely affects the ability of the armed forces to maintain discipline, good order, and morale; to foster mutual trust and confidence among service members; to insure the integrity of the system of rank and command; to facilitate assignment and worldwide deployment of service members who frequently must live and work in close conditions affording minimal privacy; to recruit and retain members of the armed forces; to maintain the public acceptability of military service; and to prevent breaches of security."

Ardentfrost · 09-19-2006, 04:43 PM

what did you just quote?

kinggovernor · 09-19-2006, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

what did you just quote?

DoD policy put out in 1981

kinggovernor · 09-19-2006, 04:48 PM

the last time don't ask don't tell was put in front of the supreme court, it won 8-0

Ardentfrost · 09-19-2006, 05:10 PM

Appeal to Tradition: Just because it's always been does not make it right.

DosEquis · 09-19-2006, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

"Homosexuality is incompatible with military service. The presence in the military environment of persons who engage in homosexual conduct or who, by their statements, demonstrate a propensity to engage in homosexual conduct, seriously impairs the accomplishment of the military mission.

How? Do they start butt humping during the mission?

The presence of such members adversely affects the ability of the armed forces to maintain discipline, good order, and morale; to foster mutual trust and confidence among service members; to insure the integrity of the system of rank and command; to facilitate assignment and worldwide deployment of service members who frequently must live and work in close conditions affording minimal privacy; to recruit and retain members of the armed forces; to maintain the public acceptability of military service; and to prevent breaches of security."

So gay people have no discipline, can't maintain order, and bring everyones morale down. Nobody trusts them nor do any other service members have confidence in them. They can't follow a system of rank and command, and minimal privacy is a problem because they like to look at other guys dicks. People want to quit or they don't want to join knowing that gays are in the military. The public does not find the military acceptable with gays serving and they are a security liability.

I want to see a company come out and say that and then point to the federal government and say "they do it". Just to see the reaction.

IminWonderland · 09-19-2006, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

You can't compare it to any other military, because those militaries aren't us. Every military that introduces gays into a society that is not fully open to them is going to cause problems.

Nobody says a gay soldier can't perform their duties as well. And in time I'm sure it will no longer be an issue just like blacks. But in the meantime gays will cause problems as kinggovernor said. A lot of people who join the military are conservative. In fact, I'd say the vast majority of people who join the military are conservative. AKA - vote republican, pro capital punishment, anti -gun control, lower taxes, pro-military, anti-welfare, personal responsibility is a huge part of their lives, etc etc.

That means that this is a personal problem with these apparently conservative straight men. They need to fix their issue, because gays don't have an issue serving next to them.

And who says that gays are exclusivley liberal? I would make the arguement that a gay in the military is just as likely to be voting republican, pro military, and all the things that you mention as a straight man is.

The thing that is forgotten with sexual identity, is that it's only about who you like to have sex with. The rest of the issues are just as vast and different as straight people.

kinggovernor · 09-19-2006, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Appeal to Tradition: Just because it's always been does not make it right.

the military is and has always been the most conservative and political incorrect government agency

kinggovernor · 09-19-2006, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

That means that this is a personal problem with these apparently conservative straight men. They need to fix their issue, because gays don't have an issue serving next to them.

the military is not about re-educating people about their thoughts regarding homosexuals they are in the business of providing the best defense possible

IminWonderland · 09-19-2006, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by DosEquis

The gay people are not the problem. It is the homophobes like b2w who would not shower next to them because they might look at his pecker or his ass with admiration. Their insecurity creates the problem and their insecurity fucks with the cohesion.

I would also disagree that the vast majority in the military are conservative republicans. I think a good portion of those in the military had limited options in their city or neighborhood and needed a way out. Not that it was their only motivation to serve, but it is usually a substantial reason. Whether it was high unemployment in the area, difficulty with school, whatever. Those in the urban areas such as that tend to vote more liberal.

So isn't this issue more about the straight man's vanity that he for some reason thinks that all gay men want him?

Gay men have standards too. Alot of times alot higher than what you might find in the military.