Is College a Birthright? - Page 2

JaJae · 06-09-2008, 11:33 AM

For those interested in what he actually said:

And maybe if he spent some time in the schools of South Carolina or St. Paul or where he spoke tonight in New Orleans, he'd understand that we can't afford to leave the money behind for No Child Left Behind; that we owe it to our children to invest in early childhood education; to recruit an army of new teachers and give them better pay and more support; to finally decide that in this global economy, the chance to get a college education should not be a privilege for the wealthy few, but the birthright of every American. That's the change we need in America. That's why I'm running for president.

He said every American deserves the chance to go to college. And I agree. We should offer loans and opportunity for every American to attend college if they desire and make it seem as if it is a possibility for the lower class who are often raised with the idea of college as being an unattainable dream despite government programs to help them.

7960 · 06-09-2008, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by JaJae

We should offer loans and opportunity for every American to attend college ...

We don't?

I didn't get a loan because my parents made too much money, but I don't know anyone who "couldn't afford college" who didn't get a loan of some sort. In fact friends who were "poor" had MORE opportunities than I did because my father said he wasn't footing the bill for my first choice college. I had to pick from a lesser tier of colleges because it was in the range *I* could afford. "Poor" friends pretty much got to go where they wanted.

Phantom · 06-09-2008, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by 7960

We don't?

I didn't get a loan because my parents made too much money, but I don't know anyone who "couldn't afford college" who didn't get a loan of some sort. In fact friends who were "poor" had MORE opportunities than I did because my father said he wasn't footing the bill for my first choice college. I had to pick from a lesser tier of colleges because it was in the range *I* could afford. "Poor" friends pretty much got to go where they wanted.

That's part of the problem IMO - kids suckered into paying for expensive private school undergrad degrees without considering the costs & benefits. You're probably better off that you didn't pay a fortune for your degree and I bet many of those that got the big loans wish they hadn't.

7960 · 06-09-2008, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by Phantom

That's part of the problem IMO - kids suckered into paying for expensive private school undergrad degrees without considering the costs & benefits. You're probably better off that you didn't pay a fortune for your degree and I bet many of those that got the big loans wish they hadn't.

Seeing as I wasn't ready to go and dropped out, picking from the 2nd choice worked out great

Dumpy Dooby · 06-09-2008, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

Seeing as I wasn't ready to go and dropped out, picking from the 2nd choice worked out great

Wait, you dropped out? I thought educators had to have college degrees.

Did you eventually go back to school? Or am I missing something here?

7960 · 06-09-2008, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

Wait, you dropped out? I thought educators had to have college degrees.

Did you eventually go back to school?

yes, I went back after a few years doing construction.

if you have a child who you want to go to college, make sure he spends some time pouring concrete for a summer job.

Dumpy Dooby · 06-09-2008, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

yes, I went back after a few years doing construction.

if you have a child who you want to go to college, make sure he spends some time pouring concrete for a summer job.

That actually sounds like a pretty damn good idea.

7960 · 06-09-2008, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

That actually sounds like a pretty damn good idea.

there's a cell phone tower on the top of mt kearsarge in NH. It might be on the next peak over, we called it kearsarge because it was close.

in the early 90s in february we put that tower there, as well as the building at the base.

that's the day I quit and told my dad I was going back to college.

lew · 06-09-2008, 11:04 PM

Education is not a right of anyone, period.

Whether it be college, high, elementary, etc.

kinggovernor · 06-10-2008, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by lew

Education is not a right of anyone, period.

Whether it be college, high, elementary, etc.

Smull · 06-10-2008, 12:45 AM

Do you think the opportunity is tough?

Phantom · 06-10-2008, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by 7960

yes, I went back after a few years doing construction.

if you have a child who you want to go to college, make sure he spends some time pouring concrete for a summer job.

I never dropped out but I slid through college with crappy grades until I did a summer of manual labor as well. I still love manual labor, I just realized it's not something I want to do for a living.

TankRizzo · 06-10-2008, 11:11 AM

so, basically if everyone attends college, the value of a 4 year degree is going to be diminished and getting a master's degree will be the next big thing to get a "decent" job. IMO this could cause more problems than it will solve. This is just going to force the middle class to go further into debt to get an even higher education which will keep them out of the workplace and paying taxes even longer. Sounds like a horrible idea to me.

We need a lot less entitlement in this country.

7960 · 06-10-2008, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Phantom

I never dropped out but I slid through college with crappy grades until I did a summer of manual labor as well.

I had a 0.8 gpa when I left college #1. When I finally put my foot down and decided to go back for teaching I got a 3.8 my first semester back. Funny how "wanting to be there" makes it easier to study.

I still love manual labor, I just realized it's not something I want to do for a living.

teaching was my #1 favorite, but when people ask about the best times I had working I end up coming back to the construction/concrete job. they gave me a truck and a map and a radio and said "go construct young man" and I drove all over new england and upstate ny. The actual work wasn't much fun, but everything surrounding it was. I know what you mean about physical labor, though. It's a good feeling to work for some specified amount of time and then stand back and say "that's done" and move on.

if I had my way I'd be a teacher and during the summer/vacations I'd do tile or paver/brick walkways.

7960 · 06-10-2008, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by TankRizzo

This is just going to force the middle class to go further into debt to get an even higher education ...

Wait.

The middle class is paying for college now so they can get ahead. If college becomes a birthright* then it's free, so the middle class is going to have to pay for an advanced degree.

The way I see it, it's a wash as far as debt is concerned.

( *this is not an endorsement of the idea, just an observation )

JaJae · 06-10-2008, 04:17 PM

When someone says college is a birthright I don't think it means that it is free. It just means that all citizens of America should be given the opportunity to attend college if they wanted to.

TankRizzo · 06-10-2008, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

Wait.

The middle class is paying for college now so they can get ahead. If college becomes a birthright* then it's free, so the middle class is going to have to pay for an advanced degree.

The way I see it, it's a wash as far as debt is concerned.

( *this is not an endorsement of the idea, just an observation )

When liberals talk about giving things away, it's usually to poor people, so I imagine the middle class will still be footing the bill for their own education.

7960 · 06-10-2008, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

When someone says college is a birthright I don't think it means that it is free. It just means that all citizens of America should be given the opportunity to attend college if they wanted to.

a birthright is something you are entitled to...imo that means if you can't afford it someone else has to give it to you.

no?

Scrum · 06-10-2008, 10:04 PM

It would be nice if we had the actual quote instead of just listing to a McCain supporters version of what was said.

Scrum · 06-10-2008, 10:09 PM

This was all I could find in the 2 minutes I used to search.

http://www.scrippsnews.com/node/33800

And maybe if he spent some time in the schools of South Carolina or St. Paul or where he spoke tonight in New Orleans, he'd understand that we can't afford to leave the money behind for No Child Left Behind; that we owe it to our children to invest in early childhood education; to recruit an army of new teachers and give them better pay and more support; to finally decide that in this global economy, the chance to get a college education should not be a privilege for the wealthy few, but the birthright of every American. That's the change we need in America. That's why I'm running for president.

Looks like he didn't say it was an entitlement, just that every American has a birthright to the opportunity.

lol@me for not reading page 2.