Is College a Birthright?

kinggovernor · 06-07-2008, 12:13 PM

Obama said this last week and I think would be devastating if it was ever passed. Entitlements only hold us back from reaching our full capability and while Obama has good intentions this would really hurt our competitiveness.

David Octavius · 06-07-2008, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

Obama said this last week and I think would be devastating if it was ever passed. Entitlements only hold us back from reaching our full capability and while Obama has good intentions this would really hurt our competitiveness.

They said the same thing about HS being an entitlement, now no one makes that argument. No one can predict what the outcome would be if everyone went to college simply because people would pursue different degrees. Others will drop out, and a few would go on to graduate studies. Perhaps colleges themselves would change and add an optional added year to their courses just for students who excel. Finally, college really doesn't mean crap after a few years, its about experience and who you know - that is the equalizer of education.

There are simply too many variables to know what would actually happen.

kinggovernor · 06-07-2008, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by David Octavius

They said the same thing about HS being an entitlement, now no one makes that argument

who is they?

motivez · 06-07-2008, 02:25 PM

I don't know that I'd call it a birthright really.

But I think it's undisputed that we're better off as a country because every child has the ability to get an education regardless of their parents wealth, so it's interesting to see people try to explain why it doesn't apply to college as well.

David Octavius · 06-07-2008, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

who is they?

Look up the history - I don't have the time/motivation to find sources

Rouger2 · 06-07-2008, 02:54 PM

We should forget about any more public spending until we pay off our national debt and get our financial house in order. That gigantic trade deficit should be brought down also. China and Saudi Arabia are going to own us with all the billions and billions of our dollars that are flowing from us to them because of the deficit. We need politicians who will be honest with the public and tell us that we have a long road to hoe and forget about feel good promises that cost money.

thewise1 · 06-07-2008, 03:25 PM

If it's made a birthright, then in another, I dunno, 50 years or maybe 100 years, people will come out of college educated to the same level of highschool now.

motivez · 06-07-2008, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by thewise1

If it's made a birthright, then in another, I dunno, 50 years or maybe 100 years, people will come out of college educated to the same level of highschool now.

How do you figure?

From what I've been able to tell, kids are learning things earlier and earlier (like algebra, etc)..

QFT · 06-07-2008, 06:19 PM

Whenever is found what is called a paternal government, there is found state education. It has been discovered that the best way to ensure implicit obedience is to commence tyranny in the nursery.
– Benjamin Disraeli, 1874

Simius · 06-08-2008, 01:17 AM

Originally Posted by thewise1

If it's made a birthright, then in another, I dunno, 50 years or maybe 100 years, people will come out of college educated to the same level of highschool now.

Just like people come out of high school today with the same education level as someone who came out of 5th grade 100 years ago, amirite?

IminWonderland · 06-08-2008, 02:27 AM

Considering the US is no longer the leader in the Univeristy turn out, it might be worth looking at the system as whole.

Ireland has free College Education, and it works great for their economy.

jimeigh · 06-08-2008, 09:43 AM

7960 · 06-08-2008, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by motivez

I don't know that I'd call it a birthright really.

But I think it's undisputed that we're better off as a country because every child has the ability to get an education regardless of their parents wealth, so it's interesting to see people try to explain why it doesn't apply to college as well.

does "birthright" mean access to college? sure.
does it mean "you can go and someone else will pay"? no.

thewise1 · 06-08-2008, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by Simius

Just like people come out of high school today with the same education level as someone who came out of 5th grade 100 years ago, amirite?

Actually, right you are, although there is an adjustment for technology level, of course.

motivez · 06-08-2008, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by thewise1

Actually, right you are, although there is an adjustment for technology level, of course.

Do you have any evidence to prove this?

Dumpy Dooby · 06-08-2008, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

Do you have any evidence to prove this?

ib "An 1895 graduation examination for public school students demonstrates a shocking decline in educational standards."

motivez · 06-08-2008, 06:49 PM

Yeah, I was waiting to see that. Snopes FTW.

Dumpy Dooby · 06-08-2008, 10:11 PM

I liked the conclusion:

Although this exam may indicate, as Velz wrote, that "[o]ur notion of nineteenth-century education as primitive and backward may need modification," perhaps what it demonstrates most is the truth of the aphorism that the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Some people are too dismissive of the quality of education during the nineteenth century, while others tend to think far too highly of it. Our children are not learning in elementary school what adults were once learning in colleges, and our teenagers are not learning what our toddlers were once learning in pre-school either. In the end, yesteryear's education is probably quite comparable to present-day education in terms of teaching what was available to teach.

Smull · 06-09-2008, 12:20 AM

A birthright is going to far, I do think that somebody with the ability should have the option to attend a college, by which i mean not restricted by their financial situation. If a person is in a bad situation it is likely not their fault since laws and customs mean that a kids parents have a HUGE influence over his financial situation.

That said I dont really have a good idea on how to achieve this, student loans and state assistance are good, I guess what Obama is really saying is that we need more programs like those.

Phantom · 06-09-2008, 10:19 AM

Community colleges in Virginia cost something like $75/credit and accept all who come.

4 year universities cost about double that, but even at $150/credit hour people who really desire to attend should not have much trouble with that amount.

Considering the government loan programs, I can't see how anyone could say they can't attend.