Since We discuss Obama's Church so often

kinggovernor · 06-11-2008, 12:08 PM

McCain Keeps His Faith to Himself, at Church and in Campaign

By Hans Nichols

April 25 (Bloomberg) -- John McCain's pastor ends his sermons with an altar call, beckoning any stirred souls to the front of his 3,500-seat "worship center'' to publicly dedicate their lives to Jesus Christ. In McCain's 15 years of attending Dan Yeary's North Phoenix Baptist Church, the pastor says, the Arizona senator has never made that walk.

"All I can tell you is that John and I have had some interesting conversations'' about faith, said Yeary, a 69-year- old Texan. "And we'll have more.''

McCain, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, is more private about the role faith plays in his life than either Democratic candidate or the president he is running to replace.

While McCain, 71, describes Yeary as his family pastor, Yeary said the senator -- who was christened an Episcopalian -- isn't a full member of his church because he has never undergone the adult baptism that membership requires.

Prospective congregants often are reticent about making the public gesture, Yeary said: "Full-immersion baptism is probably the biggest bugaboo for 99 percent of people, particularly adults.''

McCain's reluctance to bare his faith in public reflects a generational divide and his Episcopal upbringing, the senator's friends say. "I mean today, everyone just blurts out their religious convictions,'' said Orson Swindle, who was held with McCain as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam. "We practiced our faith deeply, but we did it in a very quiet way.''

Favorite Philosopher

Then-Governor George W. Bush of Texas heralded a new level of religiosity in presidential politics in a 1999 Iowa debate when he named ``Christ'' as his favorite philosopher. Last week, both remaining Democratic candidates, Senators Barack Obama of Illinois and Hillary Clinton of New York, participated in a "Compassion Forum'' at an evangelical college in Pennsylvania, answering questions about when they turned to God.

McCain declined the invitation, and in an April 23 interview on his campaign bus in West Virginia declined to discuss why he hasn't been baptized by Yeary. "It's a personal thing,'' McCain repeated three times.

Referring to his 5 1/2 years as a prisoner of war, McCain said that "my faith was tested in extraordinary fashion.'' He added that "it was my faith that got me through, not the next day or the next hour but through the next minute.''

`Agents of Intolerance'

Over the years, McCain has clashed with leaders of the religious right, a group that became a core Republican constituency in the 1980s, providing votes in exchange for candidates' commitments to its agenda. In a 2000 speech, McCain accused Bush of pandering to those leaders, and called television evangelists Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell "agents of intolerance.''

McCain and Falwell, who died last year, eventually forgave each other, and the senator gave the 2006 commencement address at Falwell's Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia. That rapprochement, coupled with McCain's anti-abortion record and his pledge to appoint conservative jurists in the mold of U.S. Chief Justice John Roberts, have quelled the doubts of many evangelicals about his credentials.

"What's going to matter is that John McCain has been a strong supporter and proponent of pro-life issues his entire career,'' said Reverend Richard Land, a leader of the 16 million member Southern Baptist Convention, which includes McCain's church.

`Religious Rhetoric'

Clinton, 60, and Obama, 46, "for all of their religious rhetoric,'' still believe that abortion should be legal, said Land, who also noted that McCain attends church more regularly than the "casual Presbyterian'' Ronald Reagan.

Yeary's 7,000-member North Phoenix Baptist is typical of the mega-churches that have sprouted across the U.S. over the past two decades, and Yeary, a registered Republican, embraces most of the positions of the evangelical right.

He opposes abortion, though he hasn't taken a position on stem-cell research, in part, he said, because such work could help his wife's multiple sclerosis. Gays are welcome in his church, while their "homosexual lifestyle'' isn't. McCain also opposes abortion and supported funding for embryonic stem-cell research, which he called "a very agonizing and tough decision.''
Compulsory Attendance

Attendance at chapel was compulsory in McCain's early years, both at Episcopal High School in Alexandria, Virginia, and the U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis. There was religion at home as well. His father prayed twice a day, dropping to his knees.

In Vietnam, a pared-down church service provided some routine in captivity. As the senior lieutenant in his Hanoi cell block, McCain led an 11 a.m. Sunday service after the prisoners' morning meal of "weed soup,'' said Swindle, a former commissioner on the Federal Trade Commission who is advising McCain's campaign.

When the guards had cleared, the senior officer would cough or tap the letter "c,'' signaling to other captives that it was time to worship. The service began by reciting the 23rd Psalm, though "we did it in the plural,'' said Swindle, "so it was `Yea, though we walk through the valley of the shadow of death, we will fear no evil.'''

`Do Unto Others'

McCain said this week that his favorite Biblical passage these days is ``Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.''

"It's really not only one of the most important tenets of Judeo-Christian values, but it's also one of the fundamental principles of leadership,'' he said.
When Yeary first met McCain 15 years ago, he said, he was captivated by the POW stories of communing with God. He asked to interview McCain on camera, broadcasting his testimonials onto the two jumbo screens at the front of the worship center, one of seven buildings on the church's grounds.

These days, McCain is much less visible at the church. He has "been pretty busy lately'' and hasn't had much of a chance to come to services, Yeary said. "Usually when they come, they slip in the side door. They are very unobtrusive.''

Yeary said he thinks he and McCain are "kindred spirits'' on spiritual matters. "When he talks about his faith, it's real and I believe him,'' the pastor said. "He just doesn't use my language.''

This would only be fair, I am surprised this story didn't receive more news attention.

kinggovernor · 06-11-2008, 12:13 PM

YouTube Video

this is the only youtube video I can find

JaJae · 06-11-2008, 12:56 PM

The media has been harping on Obama's religion for issues that came before his pastor. And in the medias defense Obama exacerbated the issue when he compared the man to an uncle and defended him. The media was unfair with Obama with Wright, but he brought a lot of it on himself.

kinggovernor · 06-12-2008, 02:20 AM

Originally Posted by JaJae

The media has been harping on Obama's religion for issues that came before his pastor. And in the medias defense Obama exacerbated the issue when he compared the man to an uncle and defended him. The media was unfair with Obama with Wright, but he brought a lot of it on himself.

IMO you haven't heard the last of Obama and the Church he belonged too, far right blogs are swimming in information about how Obama used it and the Church used him.

Just wait til the RNC 527's unleash, it isn't going to be pretty.

Demmy4Jenny · 06-12-2008, 11:46 AM

Personally, I am the most liberal person I know. I have gone to the website for that church, and to be honest, I didn't like what I saw. They have deleted some parts of that website now and replaced it with other rhetoric, but I have a problem with any church that 1) brings politics into the pulpit and 2) allows so called 'pastors' to get up and start spewing hate speech. And before any of you jump on my back, yes I understand what Wright was saying about the 'chickens coming home to roost'; the U.S. has screwed over the Arab world once to many times, and they got tired of it. Did it make it right that a small group of fanatics decided to kill 3,000 of our people? No, it doesn't, but at the same time, you can't expect to aid in oppressing a people and not expect an attack.

I have a problem with any church that allows pastors to run around and call a person who has done much more for civil liberties and equality in this country a closet racist. That 'church' seems to be filled with people like that. So, you have to ask yourself, for 20 years, Barack Obama went to that church, Wright introduced him to God/Christ, Obama sat in that church on Sunday and listened to those rants (though he said he didn't know anything about them when clearly he did, otherwise why dis-invite Wright from the campaign kick off)...you've got to think to yourself, what kind of an influence have those people had on him?

My best guess is not a good one.

Smull · 06-13-2008, 12:02 AM

What do you guys see to be the biggest issue here?
That Obama has been heavily influenced by the pastor's anti-american, anti-white rhetoric and secretly harbors a similar resentment?
That Obama (probably) lied about hearing the speeches?
That Obama (maybe) just used the church for political gains?

I mean I would be worried if I thought Obama was as radical as Wright, but I don't. I'm more concerned that this is more run of the mill political BS, and Obama attended the church because it was a popular one and it probably got him a lot of votes, that goes very strongly against Obama's "new" politics.

Ironic how this McCain religion thread has revert to an Obama one... but I do like McCain's stance. I'm not a religious person myself so I'd much prefer it if religion stayed out of politics as much as possible.

TankRizzo · 06-13-2008, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by Smull

What do you guys see to be the biggest issue here?
That Obama has been heavily influenced by the pastor's anti-american, anti-white rhetoric and secretly harbors a similar resentment?
That Obama (probably) lied about hearing the speeches?
That Obama (maybe) just used the church for political gains?

I mean I would be worried if I thought Obama was as radical as Wright, but I don't. I'm more concerned that this is more run of the mill political BS, and Obama attended the church because it was a popular one and it probably got him a lot of votes, that goes very strongly against Obama's "new" politics.

I don't think Obama himself is as radical as Wright. His wife on the other hand I firmly believe is every bit as radical, if not more so. The fact he sat there and openly accepted it for 20 years while culling a relationship with Wright on the other hand is a little eyebrow raising. Based on his speech he gave on religion, I'm inclined to believe him finding christianity again is bullshit and that he did it solely for the political gain.

Any way you look at it, he's squirmed like a worm when pressed about ANY of the issues related to the church. Every time he has first come out in denial, then he'd try to explain it away before finally disavowing them.

In finally severing the ties to these places and people, he's stopped any future snafus, but I don't think he's done nearly enough to answer the questions pertaining to his judgment and character.