Originally Posted by kinggovernor its taken out of context just like the "100 years" comment was, again I wait to hear Jim Webb's comments regarding this. No one cares about how deployments people have done to Kosovo in the last 10 years because no one is getting blown up there, ...
06-12-2008, 12:09 PM
| #21 | ||||
| helluo librorum The Lab Moderator  Humanist Chicago Suburbs 
| Originally Posted by kinggovernor Yugoslavia is nowhere near the powder keg that the Middle East is. 
Comparing the occupation of Iraq to our peacekeeping forces in Japan or Germany is as ridiculous as comparing our invasion of Iraq to WW2. | ||||
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06-12-2008, 12:56 PM
| #22 | ||||
| The Fed Must Go!  Paleolibertarian
| Originally Posted by kinggovernor The Raw Story | Unplugged McCain sings 'bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran'
Out of context? Humor? Whatever you call it, it's a pattern with this dude. Fed Up
__________________ "An unconstitutional act is not a law; it confers no rights; it imposes no duties; it affords no protection; it creates no office; it is in legal contemplation, as inoperative as though it had never been passed." Norton v. Shelby County, 118 US 425 (1885) | ||||
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06-12-2008, 01:07 PM
| #23 | ||||
| Banned by Super *********s  Moderate
| Originally Posted by Fed Up
it's a PARODY song that they played on Imus's show, which he has been a regular guest on. He didn't write the song or anything, he just sang it to get a laugh....WHICH HE DID. | ||||
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06-12-2008, 01:49 PM
| #24 | ||||
| America Fuck Yea Election Moderator  Republican In Name Only
| Originally Posted by Scrum of course any conflict is different, even WWI and WWII were different.
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06-12-2008, 02:02 PM
| #25 | ||||
| ipsa Scientia Potestas est  Pragmatist North Carolina
| Originally Posted by Demmy4Jenny Yeah, not to mention that we're not being told to leave by the government there like we are in Iraq.
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06-12-2008, 02:04 PM
| #26 | ||||
| ipsa Scientia Potestas est Pragmatist North Carolina
| Originally Posted by TankRizzo And you think it's okay for someone who could be the next Commander in Chief to sing "Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb <another country we're already already rattling the sabers about, saying "all options (including nuclear)" are on the table"?
It's highly irresponsible, and there's no reason at all to expect Iran would ever be willing to sit down with someone who's shown them such disrespect.. and if we want things to be better in Iraq, we definitely are going to want them to be a positive force | ||||
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06-12-2008, 02:13 PM
| #27 | ||||
| The Fed Must Go! Paleolibertarian
| Originally Posted by TankRizzo Ok, so if Iran's Ayatollah parodies the same song, "bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb America, how would American leaders perceive this humor?
I'm sure the leaders of Iran are just ROFL at McCains humor. Fed Up | ||||
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06-12-2008, 07:04 PM
| #28 | ||||
| Banned by Super *********s Moderate
| Originally Posted by motivez It was a joke, people laughed. You're trying to blow it out of proportion.
My fellow Americans, I'm pleased to tell you today that I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes. | ||||
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06-13-2008, 11:17 PM
| #29 | ||||
| ..... your a worthless poster  Realist
| Originally Posted by TankRizzo
 that's the first thing I thought of | ||||
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06-13-2008, 11:25 PM
| #30 | ||||
| Lurker  Conservative West Texas
| Originally Posted by Fed Up If it had been bomb bomb booja, let's bomb up falluja, I might have agreed. Or do you forget what happened there?
BTW, I am not a McCain supporter. | ||||
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06-14-2008, 01:21 AM
| #31 | ||||
| ipsa Scientia Potestas est Pragmatist North Carolina
| Originally Posted by TankRizzo I don't think it's an appropriate joke for someone running to be the person in charge of our bombs...
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06-14-2008, 02:42 AM
| #32 | ||||
| The Fed Must Go! Paleolibertarian
| Originally Posted by Darlin I'm not for us being there period. To expect good things to come from it from either side is ludicrous IMHO. To joke about it is ludicrous too IMO, especially from someone who is running for Preident. Of course this seems to fit the party platform.
"I am concerned for the security of our great Nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within." Douglas MaCArthur "In war as in life, it is often necessary when some cherished scheme has failed, to take up the best alternative open, and if so, it is folly not to work for it with all your might." Winston Churchill Peace! Fed Up Iraq War, 2003 Main article: United States occupation of Fallujah  Downtown Fallujah, December 2003 Fallujah was one of the least affected areas of Iraq immediately after the 2003 invasion by the US-led Coalition. Iraqi Army units stationed in the area abandoned their positions and disappeared into the local population, leaving unsecured military equipment behind. Fallujah was also the site of a Ba'athist resort facility called 'Dreamland', located only a few kilometers outside the city proper. The damage the city had avoided during the initial invasion was negated by damage from looters, who took advantage of the collapse of Saddam Hussein's regime. The looters targeted former government sites, the Dreamland compound, and the nearby military bases. Buildings were stripped of anything of value, including floor tiles, window frames, and door frames.[citation needed] Aggravating this situation was the proximity of Fallujah to the infamous Abu Ghraib prison, from which Saddam, in one of his last acts, had released all prisoners. Citizens of Fallujah had to defend their own homes and property from these looters and criminals in the absence of peace-keeping authorities.[citation needed] The new mayor of the city—Taha Bidaywi Hamed, selected by local tribal leaders—was strongly pro-American. When the US Army entered the town in April 2003, they positioned themselves at the vacated Ba'ath Party headquarters. A Fallujah Protection Force composed of local Iraqis was set up by the US-led occupants to help fight the rising resistance. On the evening of April 28, 2003, a crowd of 200 people defied a curfew imposed by the Americans and gathered outside a secondary school used as a military HQ to demand its reopening. Soldiers from the 82nd Airborne stationed on the roof of the building opened fire on the crowd, resulting in the deaths of 17 civilians and the wounding of over 70. [5]. The events leading up to the event are disputed. American forces claim they were responding to gunfire from the crowd, while the Iraqis involved deny this version, although conceding rocks were thrown at the troops. A protest against the killings two days later was also fired upon by US troops resulting in two more deaths. The shootings aggravated feelings against the occupation. Over the next year, various Sunni rebel groups, including foreign terrorists aligned to al-Qaeda[citation needed], entrenched themselves in the city, using it as a command base and a symbol of defiance against the multinational forces and the interim Iraqi government, to whom sovereignty was returned in July 2004. On March 31, 2004, Iraqi insurgents in Fallujah ambushed a convoy containing four American private military contractors from Blackwater USA, who were conducting delivery for food caterers ESS.[6] The four armed contractors, Scott Helvenston, Jerry (Jerko) Zovko, Wesley Batalona, and Michael Teague, were dragged from their cars, beaten, and set on fire. Their burned corpses were then dragged through the streets before being hung over a bridge crossing the Euphrates.[7][8] This bridge is unofficially referred to as "Blackwater Bridge" by Coalition Forces operating there.[9][10] This led to an abortive US operation to recapture control of the city in Operation Vigilant Resolve, and a successful recapture operation in the city in November 2004, called Operation Phantom Fury in English and Operation Al Fajr in Arabic. Operation Phantom Fury resulted in the reputed death of over 1,350 insurgent fighters. Approximately 95 American Marines were killed, and over 1,000 wounded. The U.S. military first denied that it has used white phosphorus as an anti-personnel weapon in Fallujah, but later retracted that denial, and admitted to using the substance against insurgents as an offensive weapon. [11] Current situation Residents were allowed to return to the city in mid-December 2004 after undergoing biometric identification, provided they wear their ID cards all the time. US officials report that "more than half of Fallujah's 39,000 homes were damaged during Operation Phantom Fury, and about 10,000 of those were destroyed" while compensation amounts to 20 percent of the value of damaged houses, with an estimated 32,000 homeowners eligible, according to Marine Lt Col William Brown.[12] According to NBC, 9,000 homes were destroyed, thousands more were damaged and of the 32,000 compensation claims only 2,500 have been paid as of April 14, 2005.[13] According to Mike Marqusee of Iraq Occupation Focus writing in the Guardian, "Fallujah's compensation commissioner has reported that 36,000 of the city's 50,000 homes were destroyed, along with 60 schools and 65 mosques and shrines".[14] Reconstruction mainly consists of clearing rubble from heavily-damaged areas and reestablishing basic utility services. Ten per cent of the pre-offensive inhabitants had returned as of mid-January 2005, and 30% as of the end of March 2005.[15] In 2006, some reports say two thirds have now returned and only 15 percent remain displaced on the outskirts of the city.[16] Pre-offensive inhabitant figures are unreliable; the nominal population was assumed to have been 250,000-350,000. Thus, over 150,000 individuals are still living as IDPs in tent cities or with relatives outside Fallujah or elsewhere in Iraq. Current estimates by the Iraqi Ministry of Interior and Coalition Forces put the city's population at over 350,000, possibly closing in on half a million. In the aftermath of the offensive, relative calm was restored to Fallujah. In December 2006, enough control had been exerted over the city to transfer operational control of the city from American forces to the 1st Iraqi Army Division. During the same month, the Fallujah police force began major offensive operations under their new chief. Coalition Forces, as of May 2007, are operating in direct support of the Iraqi Security Forces in the city. The city is one of Anbar province's centers of gravity in a newfound optimism among American and Iraqi leadership about the state of the counterinsurgency in the region.[17][18] In June 2007, Regimental Combat Team 6 began Operation Alljah, a security plan modeled on a successful operation in Ramadi. After segmenting districts of the city, Iraqi Police and Coalition Forces established police district headquarters in order to further localize the law enforcement capabilites of the Iraqi Police.[19] A similar program was met with success in the city of Ramadi in late 2006 and early 2007. | ||||
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06-14-2008, 02:45 AM
| #33 | ||||
| Braccae tuae aperiuntur.  Reform Party NJ
| Originally Posted by motivez I think the latest reports I've read showed the government does want us there. I presume the difference here is that the Iraqi government wants us in Iraq for as long as they want to have us there and not for as long as we want to be there. I don't think they know how much longer they want us there, but they realize that if we left right now their country would have a lot of negative effects.
__________________ No good decision was ever made in a swivel chair. Senate Majority Leader, Harry Reid: As we look back in history, the Founding Fathers would be cringing to hear people talking about eliminating earmarks. | ||||
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06-14-2008, 03:20 AM
| #34 | ||||
| The Fed Must Go! Paleolibertarian
| Originally Posted by JaJae This might answer your query (I don't know how to embed youtube)..
Q & A happened about a week ago... YouTube - Ron Paul Questions Iraq Lawmakers (2/2) Fed Up | ||||
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06-14-2008, 10:39 AM
| #35 | ||||
| minor irritant &/or non-entity News Moderator Contrarian Birmingham, UK
| I dont thnik its really clear that Iraqi central govt has a cohesive unified view on anything As for the Iraqi ppl themselves http://www.globalpolicy.org/security...308opinion.pdf Asked in march 08 Q20 Do you strongly support, somewhat support, somewhat oppose, or strongly oppose the presence of Coalition forces in Iraq? % Strongly Support 7 Somewhat Support 19 Somewhat Oppose 31 Strongly Oppose 41 The 3 or 4 pages of the pdf before this question reflect views on the central govt & various other instituions/grouping As for the 'joke', ..., comes under the same classification as his '100 years' comments, frighteningly bloody stupid. His seeming total indifference to the way his words may be precieved in the region shows that he doesnt actually understand the issue at all anyway. & I say this as person opposed to any withdrawal of CoW forces from Iraq in the foreseeable future, ..., I'm not even that keen on 'the surge' ending Regarding his 'casualties matter more than withdrawal' type comments, ..., again bloody stupid. If the main determinant of strategy/tactics is to be casualities then why bother having armed forces at all? Especially when you've already campaigned on a 'withdrawal when the jobs done' platform, ..., what matters most the casualties or the mission? (I'm not advocating a 'victory at any cost' strategy BTW) Even tho' I agree with the broad thrust of his Iraq policy I think the man shows every sign of being dangerously stupid to an almost Rumsfeldian degree & thats really saying something in my book. I understand that primarily speaking to the US electorate & in many ways I applaud his forthrightness. But theres ways & means & he seems totally oblivious to the likely impact of his words in the ME, ..., which I find staggeringly frightening given the history of this millenium at least. If he ever uses the word 'cusade' in relation CoW actions to ME then I'd favour {description of illegal act omitted}. Last edited by avsp; 06-14-2008 at 11:02 AM.. Reason: bloody formating | ||||
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06-14-2008, 04:52 PM
| #36 | ||||
| One American Family at a Time.  Idealist The OC, California
| Originally Posted by kinggovernor See, to me this is the problem. Because home or getting shot at seems like a crappy deal to me. Because things are falling apart at home, and the rest of the world is too dangerous for us to go to?
I wonder if Ireland, Canada, Switzerland, and Japan feel the same way?
__________________ "People are selfish. But they can also be compassionate and generous, and they care about the country. But not when they feel threatened. That's why this is such a crucial time. We can go in either direction. But if we don't make a choice soon, it will be too late to turn things around. I think people are willing to make the right choice. But they need leadership. They're hungry for leadership." BK/1968 | ||||
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