I am really sick of Democrats blaming businesses for the problems in our country

kinggovernor · 06-12-2008, 12:56 PM

People getting mortgages they can't afford - predatory lenders, lets regulate
Medication is too expensive - those damn pharmaceuticals companies, regulate.
Healthcare is expensive and run like a business - those damn HMOs, regulate.
Gasoline prices are up all over the world - Oil companies' fault, they are returning record profits because won't let them invest in our country. Regulate.
Child Porn is traded on the Internet - Its the ISP's problem, regulate undemocratically.

etc

If you take a step away maybe it becomes apparent why there are so many lobbyists.

WickedLou9 · 06-12-2008, 01:10 PM

Everyone likes to blame other people. Relublicans like to blame other people too. They blame China, they blame the arabs, they blame gays and elitists, etc.

I think we need alot more people looking inward. I know it's kind of trite to quote Ghandi but we should be the change we want to see in the world. You don't like high gas prices? use less gas. Make changes in your own life and set a good example for others to follow.

thewise1 · 06-12-2008, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

People getting mortgages they can't afford - predatory lenders, lets regulate
Medication is too expensive - those damn pharmaceuticals companies, regulate.
Healthcare is expensive and run like a business - those damn HMOs, regulate.
Gasoline prices are up all over the world - Oil companies' fault, they are returning record profits because won't let them invest in our country. Regulate.
Child Porn is traded on the Internet - Its the ISP's problem, regulate undemocratically.

etc

If you take a step away maybe it becomes apparent why there are so many lobbyists.

I'm with you. I hate whenever I hear people bitching about greedy companies that won't just give them what they want for free :sad2:

Scrum · 06-12-2008, 02:11 PM

I agree.

It would be much better to just have all the people who aren't rich be homeless and diseased.
They are obviously so lazy/stupid/dark that they deserve what they get.

Scrum · 06-12-2008, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by thewise1

I'm with you. I hate whenever I hear people bitching about greedy companies that won't just give them what they want for free :sad2:

Because there is no grey area between being bent over by a company and receiving their goods for free.

thewise1 · 06-12-2008, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Scrum

Because there is no grey area between being bent over by a company and receiving their goods for free.

Don't do business with the company

WickedLou9 · 06-12-2008, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by thewise1

Don't do business with the company

It's not always that simple. Sometimes it is. Sometimes it isn't.

thewise1 · 06-12-2008, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

It's not always that simple. Sometimes it is. Sometimes it isn't.

Generally, it is. But people don't want to give up their comforts or other things that they are used to, they just want them without the disadvantages such as cost or moral problems, so instead of giving them up, they complain about everything else.

IminWonderland · 06-12-2008, 02:36 PM

I think the Capatalist side of this pendulum has swung far enough. I think when we let business go unchecked, we end up with a MESS. And we have a mess, and I think my first finger would point to business.

That being said, I hope people of this country because less dependent on business, and there are many ways to do that.

thewise1 · 06-12-2008, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

I think the Capatalist side of this pendulum has swung far enough. I think when we let business go unchecked, we end up with a MESS. And we have a mess, and I think my first finger would point to business.

That being said, I hope people of this country because less dependent on business, and there are many ways to do that.

However would you plan to become less dependent on business? Revert to agrarian life?

motivez · 06-12-2008, 03:33 PM

I think there's definitely a middle ground here.. there was certainly predatory lending going on.. should we not do anything about that?

I've said what I thought about insurance in other threads, I don't think those businesses are ethical at all.. they seek to make as many people as possible suffer in order to profit, so whatever happens to them I have no problems with

There's just a middle area between "Let companies do whatever the hell they want." and "Regulate them to the point that they can no longer operate."

thewise1 · 06-12-2008, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

I think there's definitely a middle ground here.. there was certainly predatory lending going on.. should we not do anything about that?

I've said what I thought about insurance in other threads, I don't think those businesses are ethical at all.. they seek to make as many people as possible suffer in order to profit, so whatever happens to them I have no problems with

There's just a middle area between "Let companies do whatever the hell they want." and "Regulate them to the point that they can no longer operate."

An insurance company profits most when none of their clients suffer.

motivez · 06-12-2008, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by thewise1

An insurance company profits most when none of their clients suffer.

Yeah, in a perfect world no one would ever get sick or need expensive treatments. But we don't live in that world.

David Octavius · 06-12-2008, 04:01 PM

Capitalism, for all its faults is a great system, better than any other economic system we have. That being said, it is an ECONOMIC system, not a political one that some people seem to want it to be. That type of crossover needs to be checked.

Also, I find it funny that libertarians who condemns government and want as little of it as possible because they are run by humans that can be corrupt and use force, gives a virtual blank check to powerful corporations that are also run by humans who are just as fallible and that also have immense power and can use force and be corrupt.

thewise1 · 06-12-2008, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by David Octavius

Capitalism, for all its faults is a great system, better than any other economic system we have. That being said, it is an ECONOMIC system, not a political one that some people seem to want it to be. That type of crossover needs to be checked.

Also, I find it funny that libertarians who condemns government and want as little of it as possible because they are run by humans that can be corrupt and use force, gives a virtual blank check to powerful corporations that are also run by humans who are just as fallible and that also have immense power and can use force and be corrupt.

I've never seen a corporation use force in the USA... I'm sure it's happened, but it's not legal in Washington at least

Smull · 06-12-2008, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by David Octavius

Also, I find it funny that libertarians who condemns government and want as little of it as possible because they are run by humans that can be corrupt and use force, gives a virtual blank check to powerful corporations that are also run by humans who are just as fallible and that also have immense power and can use force and be corrupt.

But the corporations don't have the power that the government does, like thewise1 said, they can't use force, the gov't can, they can throw you in jail, the gov't can. You aren't forced to deal with any corporation, you choose to. And the entire idea of capitalism is that when one corporation does something not to your liking you simply find yourself another.

Overall though I think people are far too quick to want to regulate businesses, though there are times when I feel its necessary. For instance I argued in a thread not long ago that I would support the government stepping in so we weren't so dependent on foreign oil.

thewise1 · 06-12-2008, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by Smull

But the corporations don't have the power that the government does, like thewise1 said, they can't use force, the gov't can, they can throw you in jail, the gov't can. You aren't forced to deal with any corporation, you choose to. And the entire idea of capitalism is that when one corporation does something not to your liking you simply find yourself another.

Overall though I think people are far too quick to want to regulate businesses, though there are times when I feel its necessary. For instance I argued in a thread not long ago that I would support the government stepping in so we weren't so dependent on foreign oil.

To your argument, I kind of agree with what you're trying to accomplish, but if you want us to not be dependent on foreign oil, then you should blame the government for that anyway since they are preventing drilling and refining here in our own country.

IminWonderland · 06-12-2008, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by thewise1

However would you plan to become less dependent on business? Revert to agrarian life?

I've noticed that the more "green" I am, the less I'm dependent on someone else.

For example, if you look at this link at NPR about Korea and beef, I think it shows what I am saying:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=91430535

The people there don't want our beef. People in Europe don't want our beef. Instead of business rising up to the needs of what could be their multinational consumer base, they magically get our government (USDA) to lobby them to reduce their standards. This way, the company can still make its meat the cheap way, and make more profit.

That's business right there. That is what business in America means. And the whole world knows it.

That is why when our corporations come out corrupt, no one is suprised anymore.

thewise1 · 06-12-2008, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

I've noticed that the more "green" I am, the less I'm dependent on someone else.

Really... explain?

Kytro · 06-12-2008, 06:06 PM

Not saying I agree with regulation, but t