Parents who believed prayer would save daughter charged with reckless homicide

[lew]

Originally Posted by Scrum

Then why hate taxes silly?

Because just like I believe God will heal diseases, I'm not going around and getting pozzed up.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by lew

So, should the state come in and take your child away if you feed them trans fats and excess levels of sugar?

No

[lew]

Originally Posted by Scrum

No

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by lew

But if I fed him nothing but dog food and yard waste they should.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by lew

I really don't know how to feel about this.


I do believe parents have a right to raise their kids however they see fit.


But I also believe that the right of individuality begins at birth, not at 18. Therefore, I think that if she truly didn't want to partake in her parents religion and believed she was a slave to their beliefs, she should have escaped from that environment.

If she never even attempted to escape, then I would think that it was her will of that which happened, so her parents should not be prosecuted for anything.

She was 11, how can she escape?

[thewise1]

Originally Posted by lew

I'm skeptical of most peoples' claims as well.


But I still believe God can do whatever He likes.


For example, you may have heard of this before, maybe not, but there have been people that have testified that they needed fillings in their teeth and God miraculously filled their teeth with gold, so that they were good to go. I believe this can happen, since I believe God can do whatever He wants, but I always wondered why God wouldn't just heal their teeth completely where they wouldn't need fillings...at all.

lol. exactly

[Kytro]

Originally Posted by lew

Also, I am one of those "crazies" that not only believes in crazy political theories, but I also believe that God can heal bodies, cars, ipods, whatever.

I don't believe everything that their website propagates, but I am one of those "crazies."

Well if a god does exist, then of course said god could do those things.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Scrum

But if I fed him nothing but dog food and yard waste they should.

show me where that's an integral part of an established religion, with punishment of your version of eternal damnation if you don't and then we can talk.

[lew]

Originally Posted by JaJae

She was 11, how can she escape?

11 year olds live on their own in third world countries.


Not saying it's a good thing, by any means, but it is surely possible that she could escape, call the police, doctors, or do absolutely anything other than die...unless she was perfectly willing to die if God didn't heal her.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by lew

11 year olds live on their own in third world countries.


Not saying it's a good thing, by any means, but it is surely possible that she could escape, call the police, doctors, or do absolutely anything other than die...unless she was perfectly willing to die if God didn't heal her.

11 year olds living on their own in this country is called neglect and abandonment. It's a crime, and should be. Our society is not set up to allow 11 year olds to live on their own. They legally can't work, they can't pay rent, etc. You can't compare children in America to third world countries. Our laws aren't set up the same way nor are they raised with the abilities to fend for themselves.

[lew]

Originally Posted by JaJae

11 year olds living on their own in this country is called neglect and abandonment. It's a crime, and should be. Our society is not set up to allow 11 year olds to live on their own. They legally can't work, they can't pay rent, etc. You can't compare children in America to third world countries. Our laws aren't set up the same way nor are they raised with the abilities to fend for themselves.

I didn't say that she should live on her own. My point was that she could have easily escaped if she wanted to.


Young kids run away from their parents all of the time in this country.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by lew

I didn't say that she should live on her own. My point was that she could have easily escaped if she wanted to.


Young kids run away from their parents all of the time in this country.

She was 11. You're placing the blame for this on the child for not being mature enough or cognitive enough to run away from home at a time when she was in desperate need of medical care. Or you're assuming she should have run away from home before knowing or understanding the consequences of her situation.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by lew

I didn't say that she should live on her own. My point was that she could have easily escaped if she wanted to.


Young kids run away from their parents all of the time in this country.

Oh please, what 11 year olds are independent enough from their parents to completely reject their religious beliefs? At that age you generally believe what your parents tell you... especially about something like God.

You're making completely ridiculous assertions.. running away because you're angry isn't the same as being sick and being told by parents not to worry because God, the creator of the universe will heal you.

And, lets not forget she was in a coma and unresponsive for days before she finally stopped breathing..

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by 7960

show me where that's an integral part of an established religion, with punishment of your version of eternal damnation if you don't and then we can talk.

Who gets to decides what religions are allowed to kill people due to superstitions and which aren't?

[7960]

Originally Posted by Scrum

Who gets to decides what religions are allowed to kill people due to superstitions and which aren't?

who gets to decide if peyote is being used for a bonafide religious ceremony or if you're just a druggie claiming to use it for religion?

[motivez]

I think his point is that you've essentially asserted the only religious beliefs that matter are the ones our society has already come to accept

[kombayn]

Originally Posted by thewise1

I guess the way I see it is like this.

Much like immigration - The only, only way to get rid of the illegal immigrants is going to be to give the people who ARE here legally a counterfeit proof national ID card and pass a law allowing police to detain you at will to determine whether or not you are a citizen. If you aren't - or can't prove it, you will be tossed out.

Nothing else can possibly do the job. Everything else is a bunch of feel good crap that might make even a dent, but can't end it. I don't want illegals here, but at the same time I don't want to give up those rights because I'm not doing anything wrong and I shouldn't have to prove that I'm not.

The same concept applies to this. What they did was, by my moral compass, wrong. But my morals cannot be used to shape the laws of this nation on their own, and again the only way to make sure stuff like this doesn't happen is to have state oversight over parents. Random welfare checks, more scrutiny with people of differing beliefs, people like the FLDS people would catch a lot of flack just for their beliefs, even if they weren't doing anything wrong at all.

So while I don't agree with what they did, the only solution to really prevent it is unacceptable to me. So put them in front of a jury and let reasonable people decide.

If a National ID passes for the entire country, it'll be the end of State Rights, I guarantee it.

As for the topic, it's sad what happened to the child and I'm on the fence as well with what happened. I don't know if they should be considered felons for this but they need education... Praying for her to get better is not only absurd but insulting to the child they just lost. Poor girl.

[Kytro]

Originally Posted by 7960

who gets to decide if peyote is being used for a bonafide religious ceremony or if you're just a druggie claiming to use it for religion?

I would have to say there is a significant issue between drug use and other crimes where one hurts only themselves and when they put another person in harm's way.

While I so not support laws about drug usage in general, anyone should have the freedom to practice any belief, religious or otherwise as long as they don't force other people into harmful situations.

[7960]

Originally Posted by motivez

I think his point is that you've essentially asserted the only religious beliefs that matter are the ones our society has already come to accept

the key words are "bonafide religion" and that's what they first hearing should be about.