Hamas-Israeli truce

[Dylith]

The cease-fire (tahdiyeh) being negotiated between Israel and the Palestinian groups in the Gaza Strip is expected to go into effect in a number of days, following developments at the end of meetings held by Defense Minister Ehud Barak in Sharm el-Sheikh on Monday with the Egyptian leadership.

The Egyptian Chief of Intelligence, General Omar Suleiman, who has been mediating between the parties, is scheduled to meet Tueday with the heads of the Palestinian factions in the Strip.

Israel is waiting to learn from Suleiman whether the Palestinian groups, headed by Hamas, will agree to an unofficial deal on a cessation of terrorist activities in the strip, in return for an end to IDF attacks.

Israel-Hamas truce in Gaza could take effect later this week - Haaretz - Israel News


I haven't been able to find much out about the specifics of the deal concerning closure policies and aid issues. But it seems that Egypt is confident that a realistic truce could be shortly set into place.

Personally, I don't think that Hamas will have the political will or the actualy physical capabilities of stopping rogue Gaza groups from launching Qassam Rockets into Israel. I do think that Hamas will be able to stop its military groups from doing it though, but that isn't going to be enough for Israel. Hamas will stop, but the other small factions will continue which Israel will use as justification for launching counter attacks and maybe even raids, which will cause Hamas to call off the truce and declare Israel the aggressor.

Even if all of the above doesn't happen and all goes well, I question whether or not Israel will end its targeted killing practices (assassinations) of what it deems as political threats and wanted criminals within the Gaza Strip.

Both incidents have happened before and have caused an end to past truce agreements so I am not going to hold my breath for anything as long lasting as six months, but what this might do is help out talks between Israel and Abbas in the West Bank, perhaps allowing more productive talks to be held now that the Hamas security issue will temporarily no longer be an excuse to put off Road Map promises.

I am happy to see it come, and hope that it works out as well as it possibly could, but I am honestly not expecting a big turn around and am thinking that things will get better in the short run but may very well end up right back where they currently are.

[Stylerod]

I agree. It will be impossible for Hama's to stop every attack. There are just too many people/Groups who's livelihood depend on continuing attacks on Israel.

[Donkey®]

When Hamas is at peace, Fatah is not...and vice versa.

[Darlin]

Originally Posted by Dylith

The cease-fire (tahdiyeh) being negotiated between Israel and the Palestinian groups in the Gaza Strip is expected to go into effect in a number of days, following developments at the end of meetings held by Defense Minister Ehud Barak in Sharm el-Sheikh on Monday with the Egyptian leadership.

The Egyptian Chief of Intelligence, General Omar Suleiman, who has been mediating between the parties, is scheduled to meet Tueday with the heads of the Palestinian factions in the Strip.

Israel is waiting to learn from Suleiman whether the Palestinian groups, headed by Hamas, will agree to an unofficial deal on a cessation of terrorist activities in the strip, in return for an end to IDF attacks.

Israel-Hamas truce in Gaza could take effect later this week - Haaretz - Israel News


I haven't been able to find much out about the specifics of the deal concerning closure policies and aid issues. But it seems that Egypt is confident that a realistic truce could be shortly set into place.

Personally, I don't think that Hamas will have the political will or the actualy physical capabilities of stopping rogue Gaza groups from launching Qassam Rockets into Israel. I do think that Hamas will be able to stop its military groups from doing it though, but that isn't going to be enough for Israel. Hamas will stop, but the other small factions will continue which Israel will use as justification for launching counter attacks and maybe even raids, which will cause Hamas to call off the truce and declare Israel the aggressor.

Even if all of the above doesn't happen and all goes well, I question whether or not Israel will end its targeted killing practices (assassinations) of what it deems as political threats and wanted criminals within the Gaza Strip.

Both incidents have happened before and have caused an end to past truce agreements so I am not going to hold my breath for anything as long lasting as six months, but what this might do is help out talks between Israel and Abbas in the West Bank, perhaps allowing more productive talks to be held now that the Hamas security issue will temporarily no longer be an excuse to put off Road Map promises.

I am happy to see it come, and hope that it works out as well as it possibly could, but I am honestly not expecting a big turn around and am thinking that things will get better in the short run but may very well end up right back where they currently are.

Honestly, why do liberals blame Israel? Is it the excellent job that Hamas does at playing the martyr or what?

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by Darlin

Honestly, why do liberals blame Israel? Is it the excellent job that Hamas does at playing the martyr or what?

Did you seriously just question why someone would blame Israel for the strategic killings of individuals enacted by Israeli soldiers?

So if Russian soldiers were murdering US citizens, would it not be fair to blame Russia for that? Or would that be too "liberal" for you?

[Darlin]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

Did you seriously just question why someone would blame Israel for the strategic killings of individuals enacted by Israeli soldiers?

So if Russian soldiers were murdering US citizens, would it not be fair to blame Russia for that? Or would that be too "liberal" for you?

Russia is not Israel. And I am not a Liberal.

BTW, Nice to meet you DD..looks like we'll have some good conversations.

[Dylith]

Originally Posted by Darlin

Russia is not Israel. And I am not a Liberal.

BTW, Nice to meet you DD..looks like we'll have some good conversations.

I am wary about both sides because both sides have shown in the past that they really aren't partners for peace. The Palestinians aren't the only ones who have failed to meet their road map goals. Israel is currently failing to meet all of its pledged road map promises (though that deals more so with West Bank politics).

this new truce deals primarily with the Gaza strip, and one of the big issues surrounding the conflict and the Gaza Strip is Israeli targeted killing practices (as well as Israeli closure policies). Israel has a wanted list and when they locate a member on that list on Palestinian soil they send helicopters to take them out, wherever they may be including in a civilian building or in a busy street. Even if you get over the fact that they are carrying out the assassination of foreign citizens on foreign soil, they are still showing a complete disregard for the safety of innocent bystanders.

Collateral damage in Israeli assassinations is commonplace and often either shrugged off or completely ignored by Israel. When these people are killed it causes a great deal of unrest among Palestinians and practically forces Hamas to respond which forces them to break the cease-fire and claim Israel as the aggressor. (There is a reason why both sides always claim that the other broke the truce first).

Once again, this is not the only issue that I am concerned about as you can tell by my previous point but I elaborated on it because of your interest in this particular topic.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by Darlin

Honestly, why do liberals blame Israel? Is it the excellent job that Hamas does at playing the martyr or what?

I don't think it's a liberal position at all, I think it's rational one.

I for one am sick and tired of Israel-apologists who go around and claim they do no wrong and are never responsible for the escalation of violence in that region, when they plainly are.

Both sides have plenty of blame to go around and I question whether either side truly wants peaceful relations, but there are far too many apologists for Israel, shrugging off their actions as always in 'retaliation' for this or that instead of being the aggressor

[motivez]

Originally Posted by Darlin

Russia is not Israel. And I am not a Liberal.

BTW, Nice to meet you DD..looks like we'll have some good conversations.

So, Israel is a special case that can never be blamed for anything? Or what are you trying to say here?

[kombayn]

Peace won't last longer than a month. Certain people in the middle east won't stop attacking Israel until they burn the motherfucker to the ground.

[Dylith]

Israel has accepted the truce offer this morning and it will go into effect thursday at 6 am, and will last for six months. If the truce holds for several days then borders will open up to aid and if it lasts a "while" longer than that then the Gaza Egyptian border is to open.

One other note of interest is that the Islamic Jihad (a faction which contributes to rocket fire) has announced that despite having no official agreement with Israel or Hamas, that it too will honor the ceasefire.

Al Jazeera English - News - Israel Agrees To Truce With Hamas

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by Darlin

Honestly, why do liberals blame Israel? Is it the excellent job that Hamas does at playing the martyr or what?

SMART liberals blame BOTH sides for being dipshits.

[JaJae]

This didn't last long.

JERUSALEM - Police say three Palestinian rockets have hit southern Israel and Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's office says the cease-fire that took effect last week has been broken.

Islamic Jihad militants in the Gaza Strip says they carried out the attack to avenge an Israeli military raid that killed one of their fighters in the West Bank early Tuesday.

Israel's national rescue service says two people were lightly wounded in the rocket barrage.

The West Bank is not formally part of the truce. But Islamic Jihad says it "cannot keep its hands tied" when its "brothers" in the West Bank are being targeted.

However, the Gaza Strip's ruling Hamas group says it remains committed to the truce.

Israeli troops killed two Palestinians in the West Bank raid.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080624/...l_palestinians

The truce hasn't been officially called off yet that I'm aware of but if Palestine wants to keep a truce they're going to have to monitor their country better and actively work to shut down these jihadist organizations. Israel isn't going to keep getting bombed from Palestine without recourse.

[motivez]

So, Israel launches a military operation in Palestinian territory not technically a part of the cease fire.. and Palestinian military groups respond to it in kind? Seems like Israel's aggression aggression has put the cease fire in jeopardy.

It'd be like if Canada has been launching military incursions into Minnesota, we have a cease fire, and while they aren't attacking Minnesota, they start going after North Dakota instead.

Just because they're two separate territories doesn't mean the people in Minnesota don't care about what's happening to them.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by JaJae

This didn't last long.

Israeli police officer kills himself at airport - Yahoo! News

The truce hasn't been officially called off yet that I'm aware of but if Palestine wants to keep a truce they're going to have to monitor their country better and actively work to shut down these jihadist organizations. Israel isn't going to keep getting bombed from Palestine without recourse.

It's funny that you blame Palestine for just defending themselves. Isn't that the whole Pro-Israeli argument? They have the right to defend themselves? Why doesn't it work both ways?

[Dylith]

The Islamic Jihad is heavily based in the Gaza Strip but they are also based in the West Bank. Israel has claimed that the West Bank was not covered under the cease fire and that they can still launch raids in that area.

Israel launched a raid that ended up with one Islamic Jihad fighter being killed and with a Palestinian civilian being killed. In response the Islamic Jihad movement launched two or three rockets.

If the cease fire is to endure then Israel needs to stop targeting these groups. They can't attack the Islamic Jihad Brigade and not expect retaliation from said group.

The group declared that it would follow the ceasefire and they have thus far, in this case Israel is the one who fired the first shot.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by motivez

So, Israel launches a military operation in Palestinian territory not technically a part of the cease fire.. and Palestinian military groups respond to it in kind? Seems like Israel's aggression aggression has put the cease fire in jeopardy.

It'd be like if Canada has been launching military incursions into Minnesota, we have a cease fire, and while they aren't attacking Minnesota, they start going after North Dakota instead.

Just because they're two separate territories doesn't mean the people in Minnesota don't care about what's happening to them.

Actually, I believe there was mortar fire from the West Bank into Israel which is what prompted the raid.

So it would be like Canada receiving mortar fire from North Dakota and launching a military operation there. Then Minnesota, who agreed to a cease fire, attacks Canada in retaliation.

But even still the comparison doesn't really hold because it isn't really the government doing the attacking. It's jihadist groups outside government control. But until they get their militant groups under reign there cannot be peace with Israel.

In other news in the West Bank, the Hamas military wing took responsibility for firing on and injuring three Israeli hikers.

[Dylith]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Actually, I believe there was mortar fire from the West Bank into Israel which is what prompted the raid.

So it would be like Canada receiving mortar fire from North Dakota and launching a military operation there. Then Minnesota who has a cease fire attacks Canada in retaliation.

No, the raid was in the West Bank and the mortar that was launched came from the Gaza. No one took responsibility for the one mortar that was launched, it didn't hurt anybody and neither side saw the act as an organized attempt by one side to attack the other.

It was probably a small third pary that lobbed it, not the Islamic Jihad Brigade, and certainly not the West Bank contingent.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Actually, I believe there was mortar fire from the West Bank into Israel which is what prompted the raid.

So it would be like Canada receiving mortar fire from North Dakota and launching a military operation there. Then Minnesota, who agreed to a cease fire, attacks Canada in retaliation.

But even still the comparison doesn't really hold because it isn't really the government doing the attacking. It's jihadist groups outside government control. But until they get their militant groups under reign there cannot be peace with Israel.

In other news in the West Bank, the Hamas military wing took responsibility for firing on and injuring three Israeli hikers.

It's completely ridiculous to use this argument. There is no physical way possible to get every single individual under control. What are you expecting? Gulags? How about we win the war on drugs by getting every single addict to stop using drugs? Will that work?

[motivez]

Originally Posted by Dylith