Democrats capitulate to GOP in telecom immunity deal

[JaJae]

FISA Compromise Update, By Kevin Drum - CBS News

After a year of negotiations the Democrats have finally agreed to a compromise on the FISA bill. What this does:
1. Broadens the ability for the US to legally spy on citizens.
2. Companies who helped the US eavesdrop after 9/11 will be granted conditional immunity.
3. Under certain circumstances the NSA and government could eavesdrop on citizens without a specific warrant.
4. Allows the government to monitor communication and acquire information between US and overseas for reasons not necessarily related to terrorism.
The changes Congress passed last summer will become permanent.

If anything this is a win for the Republicans. The GOP and the White House agree to this and the Democratic leadership is finally going to allow this to go to vote. They don't have the votes to stop it. They've agreed to stop stalling the vote and it is expected to pass tomorrow.

[Ardentfrost]

dammit. They only had to stall 6 more months.

[Scrum]

The Dems are so fucking spineless.

And it's not conditional immunity for the telcoms. It's just not a blanket immunity now, they get the immunity if someone tries to sue and they show that the government asked for the tap.

[WickedLou9]

I just made a post on this

The Democrats lost thier balls and this is fucking bullshit.

My post is deleted now. but man. They BROADENED spying powers? Someone needs to challenge this shit.

ACLU, you are our only hope

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

I just made a post on this

The Democrats lost thier balls and this is fucking bullshit.

They rolled the GOP in '06, they are looking to roll them in '08, they have a charismatic presidential candidate poised to win the Presidency and they fall all over each other trying to appease to the Bush White House.

I don't get it.

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by Scrum

They rolled the GOP in '06, they are looking to roll them in '08, they have a charismatic presidential candidate poised to win the Presidency and they fall all over each other trying to appease to the Bush White House.

I don't get it.

They don't want to look weak on security during an election year.

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

They don't want to look weak on security during an election year.

That's a bullshit reason. They were supposed to champion the liberties lost over the past 8 years. Instead they give in like a drunk prom date.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

That's a bullshit reason. They were supposed to champion the liberties lost over the past 8 years. Instead they give in like a drunk prom date.

If I remember correctly they had five major things they wanted to accomplish:
1. Lower spending (they spent more)
2. Increase oversight of spending and ethics (loosened oversight)
3. Take power from the executive such as spying, torture, etc. (passing this FISA bill, SCOTUS recently voted in favor of them)
4. Get us out of Iraq. (didn't happen)
5. Raise the minimum wage. (achieved)

I guess 1.5 out of 5 isn't bad.

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by JaJae

If I remember correctly they had five major things they wanted to accomplish:
1. Lower spending (they spent more)
2. Increase oversight of spending and ethics (loosened oversight)
3. Take power from the executive such as spying, torture, etc. (passing this FISA bill, SCOTUS recently voted in favor of them)
4. Get us out of Iraq. (didn't happen)
5. Raise the minimum wage. (achieved)

I guess 1.5 out of 5 isn't bad.

Yeah, the worst one in the whole bunch.

[Phantom]

Is this really a compromise or is this throwing in the towel?

What exactly did the Dems get in return for agreeing to all this stuff they generally find offensive?

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by Phantom

Is this really a compromise or is this throwing in the towel?

What exactly did the Dems get in return for agreeing to all this stuff they generally find offensive?

McCain doesn't get to use it against them during the campaign. That's all I can think of. That is all McCain has. If you take away his security trump card then he's an easy candidate to beat in November.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

McCain doesn't get to use it against them during the campaign. That's all I can think of. That is all McCain has. If you take away his security trump card then he's an easy candidate to beat in November.

And all it cost were some Constitutional rights!

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by Scrum

And all it cost were some Constitutional rights!

Yeah, I guess liberties are a bargaining chip to these sitting Dems... kinda sad.

[Ron Burgundy]

AP - House and Senate leaders have agreed to a compromise surveillance bill that would effectively shield from civil lawsuits the telecommunications companies that helped the government wiretap phone and computer lines after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks without court permission.

The House was expected to pass the bill Friday, potentially ending a monthslong standoff about the rules for government wiretapping inside the United States.

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer of Maryland said the bill "balances the needs of our intelligence community with Americans' civil liberties and provides critical new oversight and accountability requirements."

The issue of legal protection for telecommunications companies that participated in warrantless wiretapping has been the largest sticking point. The Senate passed a bill that immunized them from lawsuits, but the House bill was silent on the matter.

The White House had threatened to veto any bill that did not shield the companies, which tapped lines at the behest of the president and attorney general but without permission from a special court established for that purpose, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. On Thursday, White House spokesman Tony Fratto said the bill met the standards sought by Bush and that the president supported it.

Warrantless wiretapping went on for almost six years until it was revealed by The New York Times. Some 40 lawsuits have been filed against the companies by people and groups who think the government illegally eavesdropped on them.

The compromise bill would have a federal district court review certifications from the attorney general saying the telecommunications companies received presidential orders telling them wiretaps were needed to detect or prevent a terrorist attack. If the paperwork were in order, the judge would dismiss the lawsuit.

Rep. Roy Blunt of Missouri, the second-ranking Republican, predicted all the cases would go away.

Under the compromise, the district judge would for the first time be allowed to read the top-secret letters from Bush administration officials — usually the attorney general — to the companies requesting domestic wiretaps without court orders, according to Democratic aides. Each company got around 40 such letters, they said, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter.

The compromise bill would also require the inspectors general of the Justice Department, Pentagon and intelligence agencies to investigate the wiretapping program to determine both its scope and legality. The report is due in a year.

Those two provisions, immunity and investigation, are meant to balance two competing concerns. Advocates for telecom protection say the companies acted in good faith and that the wiretaps were necessary to avert another terrorist attack. Opponents to immunity say civil lawsuits are the best way to determine whether the Bush administration illegally spied on Americans.

Not all Democrats were falling in line with the compromise. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada and Sens. Patrick Leahy of Vermont, Chris Dodd of Connecticut and Russ Feingold of Wisconsin said they opposed immunity. Feingold called the bill a "capitulation."

"The House and Senate should not be taking up this bill, which effectively guarantees immunity for telecom companies alleged to have participated in the president's illegal program, and which fails to protect the privacy of law-abiding Americans at home," Feingold said.

Several privacy and civil rights said Thursday they opposed the bill. The liberal political activist group MoveOn.org was organizing a phone campaign Thursday to pressure House members to defeat it.

Sixty-eight senators were expected to support the compromise, enough to defeat any filibuster attempt. The previous Senate bill, which gave the companies blanket immunity, passed with 67 votes. Sen. Dianne Feinstein, a California Democrat, was expected to join that group because the new bill includes a measure she championed_ making FISA the only legal authority for wiretapping for intelligence purposes.

Rep. Peter Hoekstra of Michigan, the senior Republican on the House Intelligence Committee, said passage of the bill by Congress was necessary before August when the first yearlong surveillance orders approved under a previous surveillance regime would run out.

The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Amendment bill also would:

_Require FISA court permission to wiretap Americans who are overseas.

_Prohibit targeting a foreigner to secretly eavesdrop on an American's calls or e-mails without court approval.

_Allow the FISA court 30 days to review existing but expiring surveillance orders before renewing them.

_Allow eavesdropping in emergencies without court approval, provided the government files required papers within a week.

_Prohibit the government from invoking war powers or other authorities to supersede surveillance rules in the future.

The new FISA bill, if it became law, would expire in 2012.

source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080620/ap_on_go_co/terrorist_surveillance [link]

[motivez]

This is a disgusting abuse of legislative power.. I can't believe the Democrats capitulated on an issue they didn't need to capitulate on.

The telecoms were complicit in helping this Administration break the law, violate our civil rights, and now we're going to provide them with immunity? Complete bullshit.

And the people who say "Well, if they get sued they'll be reluctant to help out in the future" are full of shit. Give them a court order and a legal framework to work in and they'll help out.

Companies like Qwest knew this was bullshit and respected their customers privacy and our laws and refused to help..

[JaJae]

Complete:
House of Representatives approves US spy bill - Yahoo! News

WASHINGTON (AFP) - The US House of Representatives on Friday approved a compromise spy-powers bill that has drawn heavy fire from civil liberties groups.
ADVERTISEMENT

The measure was approved by 293 votes against 129, despite opposition from many Democratic legislators and reservations by expressed by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

All of the chamber's Republican members voted in favor, as did 105 Democrats.

The measure was strongly supported by President George W. Bush, who earlier Friday said it was "vital that our intelligence community has the ability to learn who the terrorists are talking to, what they are saying, and what they are planning."

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Complete:
House of Representatives approves US spy bill - Yahoo! News

What a sad day.

[kombayn]

So our government now can spy on U.S. citizens over-seas? Jesus Christ, are we moving toward the movie 1984 or is this all a bad-bad dream?

[motivez]

The only hope we have now is that Dodd or someone else with a spine puts a hold on this bill, threatens to fillibuster, or something else.

Honestly, if Obama sits in the background and lets this happen I retract my statement about donating to his campaign, and I won't work for it this fall like I'd been planning.

What use a candidate of change if the more things change, the more they stay the same?

He's the leader of the party and could kill this if he wanted to.