Something for most of you to go apeshit over

[motivez]

Originally Posted by lew

Right. Which is exactly the entire reason I am against this.

The sanctioned safety campaign is bullshit.

Yeah, but lets say they were just out on a routine patrol and noticed something "wrong" -- should they not investigate?

[thewise1]

Originally Posted by motivez

Yeah, but lets say they were just out on a routine patrol and noticed something "wrong" -- should they not investigate?

What's visible from the street? The garage door, right? The other stuff probably wouldn't be.

I wouldn't complain if they came to my door and told me I left the door open. That's just being courteous. But if they walked in my home? Yeah I'd be a little peeved.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by thewise1

What's visible from the street? The garage door, right? The other stuff probably wouldn't be.

I wouldn't complain if they came to my door and told me I left the door open. That's just being courteous. But if they walked in my home? Yeah I'd be a little peeved.

Sure, I would too. But I mean, isn't it their job to investigate when they think something is wrong?

[lew]

Originally Posted by motivez

Yeah, but lets say they were just out on a routine patrol and noticed something "wrong" -- should they not investigate?

If they noticed my house was on fire, then come on in.


If they see dead bodies hung from the windows, come on in.


If my door has been kicked down, come on in.


If my garage door is open and I have a TV on, do not come in. Do not even come to my door to inform me.

[thewise1]

Originally Posted by motivez

Sure, I would too. But I mean, isn't it their job to investigate when they think something is wrong?

Eh at this point I think the lines are clearly drawn and we all at least understand each other's position so it's probably not profitable to continue...

I wish I could opt out of all 'courtesy' calls from police officers though. Or better yet that I had to opt in.

[motivez]

You haven't answered the question though. If the police notice something awry, should they not investigate? Isn't that part of their mandate?

[motivez]

Originally Posted by lew

If they noticed my house was on fire, then come on in.


If they see dead bodies hung from the windows, come on in.


If my door has been kicked down, come on in.


If my garage door is open and I have a TV on, do not come in. Do not even come to my door to inform me.

So how are they supposed to know what circumstances are acceptable to you? They can't. They have to rely on their own judgment, training, and their mission.

How do they know you didn't set your own house on fire? Your property, you can do what you want.

How do they know you didn't kick your own door in? Your property, you can do what you want.

How do they know those dead bodies aren't Halloween props?

They use their own judgment in each of those scenarios.

[thewise1]

Originally Posted by motivez

You haven't answered the question though. If the police notice something awry, should they not investigate? Isn't that part of their mandate?

The things listed in this thread are not, to me, evidence that a crime has taken place or is about to take place.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by thewise1

The things listed in this thread are not, to me, evidence that a crime has taken place or is about to take place.

That is not their only duty.

[lew]

Originally Posted by motivez

So how are they supposed to know what circumstances are acceptable to you? They can't. They have to rely on their own judgment, training, and their mission.

How do they know you didn't set your own house on fire? Your property, you can do what you want.

How do they know you didn't kick your own door in? Your property, you can do what you want.

How do they know those dead bodies aren't Halloween props?

They use their own judgment in each of those scenarios.

I agree with your points.

But society at large thinks it is acceptable for a cop to enter your home if he sees what appears to be dead bodies hanging from the window.

Society at large (at least I wouldn't think) thinks it is perfect acceptable for a cop to enter your home because your garage door is open.

[thewise1]

Originally Posted by JaJae

That is not their only duty.

There was also no evidence that someone was in danger.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by thewise1

There was also no evidence that someone was in danger.

In your opinion there wasn't. If a house isn't secured in the middle of the night it is a sign that there is something wrong. Upon discovering the front door propped open and having no response to verbal communication the officer had a good enough reason to check on the well being of the people in the home. This was likely an officer who patrolled that area frequently and this was probably something extremely rare. He had ever reason to check it out and make sure everyone was ok. If it were my mother's home I would hope a police officer would check up on her in similar circumstances.

[thewise1]

Originally Posted by JaJae

In your opinion there wasn't. If a house isn't secured in the middle of the night it is a sign that there is something wrong. Upon discovering the front door propped open and having no response to verbal communication the officer had a good enough reason to check on the well being of the people in the home. This was likely an officer who patrolled that area frequently and this was probably something extremely rare. He had ever reason to check it out and make sure everyone was ok. If it were my mother's home I would hope a police officer would check up on her in similar circumstances.

Well to each their own I guess

[Kytro]

Originally Posted by thewise1

So if I'm not home and I leave my house open, does that mean police have the right to enter my home?



I would argue no, it does not, but apparently this isn't unanimous.

The only reason I would say yes is because it is out of the ordinary situation. It is after all the job of a police officer to help prevent crime, not just react when one occurs.

This is one of those situations that would be 90% less controversial had the cops stopped someone who stealing or worse.

[Kytro]

Originally Posted by lew

Society at large (at least I wouldn't think) thinks it is perfect acceptable for a cop to enter your home because your garage door is open.

No, but if you don't answer the door, then it changes things a little - mostly because it reasonable to assume someone would answer the door and if they have not secured their possessions in addition it is suspicious (perhaps someone has broken in etc).

[7960]

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

I think thats taking some liberties with the story.

The way I read it.

Police knock, no answer.
(probably declare themselves)
Enter...............

stop right there.

why?

[7960]

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

I think thats taking some liberties with the story.

The way I read it.

Police knock, no answer.
(probably declare themselves)
Enter
Find children having slumber party
Ask them to get father
Kids say no
Officers go upstairs and talk to father

I didn't read anything that would imply they searched room to room and leaned over his bed before waking him.

so they knew which room he was in and didn't wake him from his bed?

because if they didn't know what room he was in then they searched room by room and had to approach his bed to wake him.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Phantom

I still think the officer crossed the line, but just barely. I understand why people are upset, especially considering the safety campaign, but a person so careless with their rights does not have much basis for complaint.

bullshit. do you also blame rape victims for their rape because they were wearing a short skirt

this guy had every expectation that the police would FOLLOW THE LAW and not enter his house. so if someone he doesn't recognize is in his room at 3am then he's got a decent expectation that it's NOT the police.

[7960]

Originally Posted by JaJae

This was likely an officer who patrolled that area frequently and this was probably something extremely rare. He had ever reason to check it out and make sure everyone was ok.

now you're making shit up to bolster your (incorrect) point.

I could just as easily say "it was likely an officer who had never been to the neighborhood before but was only there because of the (stupid) safety campaign. He had every reason to stay the fuck off the property."

[7960]

Originally Posted by Kytro

No, but if you don't answer the door, then it changes things a little - mostly because it reasonable to assume someone would answer the door

at 3am?

it's reasonable to expect someone is SLEEPING at 3am and WOULD NOT answer the door.