Something for most of you to go apeshit over

[nbiggershaft]

Originally Posted by 7960

so they knew which room he was in and didn't wake him from his bed?

because if they didn't know what room he was in then they searched room by room and had to approach his bed to wake him.

I don't know how to multi-quote. But if the cops knocks on the door to make sure everything is ok, and no one answers....... the cop then assumes everything is ok? Maybe he should stop before he goes in and call .... the cops? There is no one else who's job it is check this kind of thing out.

As to what is listed on this quote. Just speculating, but the story says the officers came across the kids first. I am guessing they probably asked where their parents are. Even if not, there is nothing in the story to indicate the officers didn't go down the hall knocking on doors, declaring themselves and asking if they could come in.

[7960]

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

I don't know how to multi-quote. But if the cops knocks on the door to make sure everything is ok, and no one answers....... the cop then assumes everything is ok? Maybe he should stop before he goes in and call .... the cops? There is no one else who's job it is check this kind of thing out.

But it was nobody's job to check anything out.

... there is nothing in the story to indicate the officers didn't go down the hall knocking on doors, declaring themselves and asking if they could come in.

And again my point..........they shouldn't have been in the house at all. They shouldn't have been walking down the hall or knocking on doors or announcing themselves.

With the way I sleep if the police knocked on my door I doubt I'd hear it. Should they just come on in because they knocked and I didn't answer?

[Simius]

Originally Posted by 7960

But it was nobody's job to check anything out.


And again my point..........they shouldn't have been in the house at all. They shouldn't have been walking down the hall or knocking on doors or announcing themselves.

With the way I sleep if the police knocked on my door I doubt I'd hear it. Should they just come on in because they knocked and I didn't answer?

Do they have reasonable cause to think somebody inside might be hurt? Then sure.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by 7960

bullshit. do you also blame rape victims for their rape because they were wearing a short skirt

this guy had every expectation that the police would FOLLOW THE LAW and not enter his house. so if someone he doesn't recognize is in his room at 3am then he's got a decent expectation that it's NOT the police.

What law did they break?

If the police are walking a beat and hear a scream from inside a building, they're allowed to enter the property

In this situation it wasn't a scream, but a combination of other factors which lead them to believe something was wrong.

[Kytro]

Originally Posted by 7960

at 3am?

it's reasonable to expect someone is SLEEPING at 3am and WOULD NOT answer the door.

Most people would wake up an answer the door - and having your door open at 3am is out of the ordinary (though of course not illegal).

[7960]

Originally Posted by motivez

What law did they break?

I'm not a lawyer but I'd say entering a house without being invited might be trespassing.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by 7960

I'm not a lawyer but I'd say entering a house without being invited might be trespassing.

So, if police hear a scream and enter a building, they should be charged with trespassing on private property?

[Kytro]

Originally Posted by 7960

I'm not a lawyer but I'd say entering a house without being invited might be trespassing.

It certainly could be, though you could find it difficult to get a jury to convict.

In real terms, the police didn't need to do what they did, and in the absence of evidence to the contrary one could easily assume they were doing a public service that is generally supported by the public.

I have some sympathy to concept the cops shouldn't just waltz on in, though

[lew]

Originally Posted by JaJae

In your opinion there wasn't. If a house isn't secured in the middle of the night it is a sign that there is something wrong. Upon discovering the front door propped open and having no response to verbal communication the officer had a good enough reason to check on the well being of the people in the home. This was likely an officer who patrolled that area frequently and this was probably something extremely rare. He had ever reason to check it out and make sure everyone was ok. If it were my mother's home I would hope a police officer would check up on her in similar circumstances.

This is the ENTIRE point. They shouldn't have been on his property to even notice that his door was propped open.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by lew

This is the ENTIRE point. They shouldn't have been on his property to even notice that his door was propped open.

Why not?

Unless you live in Texas, the normal assumption is that it's ok to walk up to your front door and give it a knock. Would you chase away a neighbor who came to welcome you to the neighborhood?

[lew]

Originally Posted by Phantom

Why not?

Unless you live in Texas, the normal assumption is that it's ok to walk up to your front door and give it a knock. Would you chase away a neighbor who came to welcome you to the neighborhood?

At 3am, yes the fuck I would.


And besides, this wasn't a neighbor, this was a cop.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by lew

This is the ENTIRE point. They shouldn't have been on his property to even notice that his door was propped open.

Why is that? Where I'm from you can often tell if someone's door is propped open from the street. Also when someone's garage door is open in the middle of the night it isn't uncommon for a police officer to check on the home to make sure everything is ok.

I used to work late nights and the local police learned my car. If something was out of the ordinary they would check up on me. There were a couple times I was there very late and a customer must have left their car in the parking lot. Seeing this and seeing how late it was they thought something might have been wrong. There were times I was there late and a customer on the way out accidentally left the front door open. I've had an officer come in and let me know. My first reaction was "Thank you" and not "We're closed, you're trespassing and violating our rights. If I want to leave the door open I will and it's none of your business to come in."

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by lew

At 3am, yes the fuck I would.


And besides, this wasn't a neighbor, this was a cop.

So it's a matter of time of day?

[lew]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Why is that? Where I'm from you can often tell if someone's door is propped open from the street. Also when someone's garage door is open in the middle of the night it isn't uncommon for a police officer to check on the home to make sure everything is ok.

I used to work late nights and the local police learned my car. If something was out of the ordinary they would check up on me. There were a couple times I was there very late and a customer must have left their car in the parking lot. Seeing this and seeing how late it was they thought something might have been wrong. There were times I was there late and a customer on the way out accidentally left the front door open. I've had an officer come in and let me know. My first reaction was "Thank you" and not "We're closed, you're trespassing and violating our rights. If I want to leave the door open I will and it's none of your business to come in."

An officer walking into a place of business "late at night" - (what is that? 11?) is completely different from an officer walking into a house at 3am.

If you can't see the difference there, there is no more point in arguing this.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Kytro

It certainly could be, though you could find it difficult to get a jury to convict.

not if I was on the jury.

[7960]

Originally Posted by JaJae

So it's a matter of time of day?

Is this a serious question?

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by 7960

Is this a serious question?

Yes. His argument is slightly different from yours in that his foundation is focused around his libertarian property rights mentality. However, it seems the time of day is important to him. If it was an issue of rights as he has been saying then time shouldn't matter.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by lew

An officer walking into a place of business "late at night" - (what is that? 11?) is completely different from an officer walking into a house at 3am.

If you can't see the difference there, there is no more point in arguing this.

I didn't know there was a difference in property rights to a libertarian/anarchist. Private ownership is private ownership, no? Time of day shouldn't matter regarding your rights, no? And to be clear the instances I was referring to happened between 2am - 5am. We would still be open at 11pm (until roughly 1am).

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by lew

This is the ENTIRE point. They shouldn't have been on his property to even notice that his door was propped open.

So nobody is allowed to knock on your door now? They were going around the neighborhood...leaving notices...when they noticed the door open. Not unlocked...but open. You don't think that's weird? Also...you would have a problem with someone knocking on your door @ 3am to tell you that your garage is on fire?

[7960]

Originally Posted by JaJae