Something for most of you to go apeshit over

[7960]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

So nobody is allowed to knock on your door now? They were going around the neighborhood...leaving notices...when they noticed the door open. Not unlocked...but open. You don't think that's weird? Also...you would have a problem with someone knocking on your door @ 3am to tell you that your garage is on fire?

Wow, was it on fire? I didn't read that in the article.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by 7960

Time only matters in that the cops were knocking on his door at 3am. They should have EXPECTED that he wouldn't answer. Also, IMO, it gives him that much more justification to kill anyone he doesn't know who's walking around inside his house/bedroom, but that's a different issue.

So because nobody answers they should ignore the situation? I don't think I fully understand the point you're trying to make.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by 7960

Wow, was it on fire? I didn't read that in the article.

I was responding to the notion that the cops "shouldn't have been on the property to begin with"...and that neighbors shouldn't even knock on doors @ 3am. I wasn't implying that it was on fire. But, an open door to a police officer could mean the same thing as a fire in the garage to a fireman.

[7960]

Originally Posted by JaJae

So because nobody answers they should ignore the situation? I don't think I fully understand the point you're trying to make.

I made my point 2 pages ago. They should not have entered his house.

[lew]

Originally Posted by JaJae

I didn't know there was a difference in property rights to a libertarian/anarchist. Private ownership is private ownership, no? Time of day shouldn't matter regarding your rights, no? And to be clear the instances I was referring to happened between 2am - 5am. We would still be open at 11pm (until roughly 1am).

Private ownership is private ownership.


But businesses have an expectation of people walking in at any given time of day.

Homes do not.

[lew]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

So nobody is allowed to knock on your door now? They were going around the neighborhood...leaving notices...when they noticed the door open. Not unlocked...but open. You don't think that's weird? Also...you would have a problem with someone knocking on your door @ 3am to tell you that your garage is on fire?

Garage wasn't on fire.


And no, I don't want ANYONE to go to my house at 3am and leave a notice.

[lew]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

I was responding to the notion that the cops "shouldn't have been on the property to begin with"...and that neighbors shouldn't even knock on doors @ 3am. I wasn't implying that it was on fire. But, an open door to a police officer could mean the same thing as a fire in the garage to a fireman.

So, if there was a fireplace lit with a fire inside a home, a fireman should be able to come in and put it out?



Of course not. A fire burning up a garage is a possibly dangerous situation - so yes, a fireman entering that situation is warranted.

Likewise, like I already said, if the door had been knocked down and blood was all over the place, it is reasonable that a cop check it out. However, none of that was so in this case. A door was open. That was it.

Also, again, the whole issue with this was the fact that cops were going from house to house at 3am and giving notices to people. For the life of me, I cannot understand why some of you think that is perfectly acceptable.


A cop patrolling the streets at 3am? Fine, whatever. But a cop going door to door at 3am and inspecting your house?

[Kytro]

Originally Posted by 7960

not if I was on the jury.

It was meant as a general statement, rather than a specific. If you told the truth at jury selection I doubt you would be picked.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Kytro

It was meant as a general statement, rather than a specific. If you told the truth at jury selection I doubt you would be picked.

well that sucks.

apparently you need to lie at jury selection in order to reasonably and truthfully judge your peers.

[thewise1]

Can us libertarian folks just have a state somewhere that we can be left alone to leave our doors open if we want, smoke on our own property if we want, and just in general be left alone to do our own thing as long as we hurt no one against their will?

I'm kinda tired of dealing with the disdain of people who are willing to give up their right to property in exchange for safety - if you want to that's fine, but I don't

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by thewise1

Can us libertarian folks just have a state somewhere that we can be left alone to leave our doors open if we want, smoke on our own property if we want, and just in general be left alone to do our own thing as long as we hurt no one against their will?

I'm kinda tired of dealing with the disdain of people who are willing to give up their right to property in exchange for safety - if you want to that's fine, but I don't

That's the problem with them...they think they are too good for this country. They'd rather whine, bitch and moan about shit like this than focus on the real problems in America.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by thewise1

Can us libertarian folks just have a state somewhere that we can be left alone to leave our doors open if we want, smoke on our own property if we want, and just in general be left alone to do our own thing as long as we hurt no one against their will?

I'm kinda tired of dealing with the disdain of people who are willing to give up their right to property in exchange for safety - if you want to that's fine, but I don't

Who's saying you can't leave your door open?

I mean, the real question here is whether or not the police should be allowed to investigate if they believe something is wrong.

If they hear a scream, isn't that reasonable? If they see something on fire, isn't that reasonable?

If they're in an area at 3am and notice keys in someone's car, door open, tv playing, and no one answering.. is that not reasonable also?

I realize you guys wouldn't want them on your property at all without being invited, but I don't think there's anything illegal about the police going door to door to talk to people in an area.. if you feel like there is, what if there's a crime in the neighborhood.. should they not be allowed to ask people at various residents if they noticed anything suspicious?

I mean, I don't like this situation much, it creeps me out. But what kind of authority would you guys allow the police to have to investigate things they determine to be suspicious?

[thewise1]

Originally Posted by motivez

Who's saying you can't leave your door open?

I mean, the real question here is whether or not the police should be allowed to investigate if they believe something is wrong.

If they hear a scream, isn't that reasonable? If they see something on fire, isn't that reasonable?

If they're in an area at 3am and notice keys in someone's car, door open, tv playing, and no one answering.. is that not reasonable also?

I realize you guys wouldn't want them on your property at all without being invited, but I don't think there's anything illegal about the police going door to door to talk to people in an area.. if you feel like there is, what if there's a crime in the neighborhood.. should they not be allowed to ask people at various residents if they noticed anything suspicious?

I mean, I don't like this situation much, it creeps me out. But what kind of authority would you guys allow the police to have to investigate things they determine to be suspicious?

If they can offer a reasonable articulation of what led them to believe that someone is in danger on the property, then they are welcome to come in.

A door open has no link to danger (unless there was a manhunt going on there or something maybe). In this context, the totality of the circumstances did not include any reference to anyone in danger or committing a crime.

You ask about going door to door - I'd rather not be bothered at 3am, but if there was a crime and they are just trying to investigate I don't mind them knocking, or if the door is open calling for me, but if I don't answer and my house wasn't involved in the crime, just stay out.

It's really quite simple.

[7960]

And the guy speaks

YouTube Video

turns out the cops may have "fudged" a few things, like the door and where the kids were and whether the cops woke the kids or not.