Interesting HOA battle - Page 2

kinggovernor · 07-21-2008, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by saabguy

part of the closing package they sign if they get a mortgage will already have some HOA fees included, but there should also be some disclosures about the HOA. if they don't sign it, they don't close on the property.

Phantom · 07-21-2008, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

it happens often in my parent's HOA that someone goes through closing and signs all 11tybillion pages to buy the place and really don't realize they joined a HOA. sure they were told but they didn't really "get it" that they were signing a paper that said they owe monthly/yearly dues.

The realtors for those transactions should be executed.

7960 · 07-21-2008, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

What I wonder is, on what grounds can they sue you if you haven't contracted with them in any way. Unless the previous owner makes you sign something when you buy the home.

there are neighborhoods that create a HOA and you're required to join. you can be required to join. by not signing you're not "off the hook" you're just accruing fees while you're not paying.

Homeowner associations can compel homeowners to pay a share of common expenses, usually per-unit or based on square footage. These expenses generally arise from common property, which varies dramatically depending on the type of association. ....<other> associations have no common property, but may charge for services or other matters.

homeowners' association: Definition and Much More from Answers.com

clever bastards

there are 20 lots, 10 houses, 3 of them are year-round. the other 7 are vacation places. if they want to get to their vacation home they have to pay. sure technically what he's doing is illegal, but it's only illegal if you get called on it and nobody has because to do it they'll also have to say "he did it because I didn't pay" and then the judge will say "ah-HA!"

7960 · 07-21-2008, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by Phantom

The realtors for those transactions should be executed.

while I agree, the buyer also shares responsibility

saabguy · 07-21-2008, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

it happens often in my parent's HOA that someone goes through closing and signs all 11tybillion pages to buy the place and really don't realize they joined a HOA. sure they were told but they didn't really "get it" that they were signing a paper that said they owe monthly/yearly dues.

well, if they are applying for a mortgage, the HOA fees are calculated in their monthly "Debt-to-income" ratio. the lender is going to see that there is some kind of HOA and require that these are included. also it is disclosed to them from the beginning by their realtor, or should be anyway. then, when a title company/attorney goes through the settlement statement, it will typically show some HOA fees that get paid up-front, and if they STILL don't realize they're part of an HOA, there are usually multiple disclosures describing the HOA. so if someone "claims" they didn't knowingly join an HOA, i'd be kind of

saabguy · 07-21-2008, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

They (being the person selling to you) can't close? Or the sale is somehow invalid? Or they are just avoiding paying a fine of some sort?

it's part of the closing package. if they don't sign that part of the closing package, they might as well pack up and go home because the whole closing is dead. you can't pick and choose which forms/disclosures to sign. if you want to buy the property, you have to sign it all.

7960 · 07-21-2008, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by saabguy

well, if they are applying for a mortgage, the HOA fees are calculated in their monthly "Debt-to-income" ratio. the lender is going to see that there is some kind of HOA and require that these are included. also it is disclosed to them from the beginning by their realtor, or should be anyway. then, when a title company/attorney goes through the settlement statement, it will typically show some HOA fees that get paid up-front, and if they STILL don't realize they're part of an HOA, there are usually multiple disclosures describing the HOA. so if someone "claims" they didn't knowingly join an HOA, i'd be kind of

what I said....... "(they) really don't realize they joined a HOA. sure they were told but they didn't really "get it" that they were signing a paper that said they owe monthly/yearly dues."

there are hundreds of pages to sign at a closing. the fact that they're joining a HOA (often times) is one of those "yeah whatever" things and is blown over until they get their first bill after moving in.

luckily the dues at my parents HOA is $400/YEAR and there's a rebate check at the end of the year and people usually get about $100 back so people don't bitch too much.

kinggovernor · 07-21-2008, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

what I said....... "(they) really don't realize they joined a HOA. sure they were told but they didn't really "get it" that they were signing a paper that said they owe monthly/yearly dues."

there are hundreds of pages to sign at a closing. the fact that they're joining a HOA (often times) is one of those "yeah whatever" things and is blown over until they get their first bill after moving in.

luckily the dues at my parents HOA is $400/YEAR and there's a rebate check at the end of the year and people usually get about $100 back so people don't bitch too much.

isn't that why you hire a lawyer, to handle the "hundreds of pages"?

7960 · 07-21-2008, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

isn't that why you hire a lawyer, to handle the "hundreds of pages"?

i did

. i'm telling you what my father has seen too often when he sends the paperwork to closings.

he's the HOA president so he sends all the papers but he doesn't actually go to the closings.

kinggovernor · 07-21-2008, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

i did . i'm telling you what my father has seen too often when he sends the paperwork to closings.

he's the HOA president so he sends all the papers but he doesn't actually go to the closings.

if you are willing to spend 100-200k+ without reading the fine print or hiring someone to read it for you, god help yourself

7960 · 07-21-2008, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

if you are willing to spend 100-200k+ without reading the fine print or hiring someone to read it for you, god help yourself

I 100% agree.

saabguy · 07-22-2008, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

if you are willing to spend 100-200k+ without reading the fine print or hiring someone to read it for you, god help yourself

there's also declarations & covenants for the association that someone buying a condo SHOULD read, or at least have explained to them, by a lawyer or their realtor if they are familiar with the association.

i am "technically" part of an association (and "technically" i'm the "president"

) but we're pretty much just formed to keep our 1/8 mile road plowed during the winter since it's a private road. the rest of our covenants pretty much say don't build anything within 15 feet of your boundary line, don't plop down an RV on your property as "permanent residence," and if your house burns or gets destroyed, you have to level it completely within a year. I'm not a big fan of associations that tell you what color you can paint your house, or which trees you may or may not remove.

7960 · 07-23-2008, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by saabguy

there's also declarations & covenants for the association that someone buying a condo SHOULD read, or at least have explained to them, by a lawyer or their realtor if they are familiar with the association.

i am "technically" part of an association (and "technically" i'm the "president" ) but we're pretty much just formed to keep our 1/8 mile road plowed during the winter since it's a private road. the rest of our covenants pretty much say don't build anything within 15 feet of your boundary line, don't plop down an RV on your property as "permanent residence," and if your house burns or gets destroyed, you have to level it completely within a year.

those are the same kinds of covenants in my parent's HOA...they live on a dirt road so 90% of the dues go to maintaining the road. whether it's for repair or plowing or tree removal, those kinds of things.

they do have some covenants about needing "permission" to cut trees within 15' of their lot line because the area is very wooded and they don't want people clear-cutting their lot right up to the border. some people might think that's going too far but the minimum lot size is 4 acres so a 15' buffer at the lot line isn't exactly a hardship.