Obama's Reparations

chriswallace112 · 06-22-2008, 09:59 PM

Barack Obama is the greatest hope for us to finally rise above our past and be able to take our rightful place in society. No other act or event, be it affirmative action or programs for the underprivileged, has come close to evening out the playing field between the races. There is no doubt that the first African-American President will lift our people up and finally give us our due: Reparations for Slavery. Obama understands how our people have struggled, how our people have been oppressed, and how our people have not been able to defeat small-mindedness and racism in America. No other president has ever known our pain and this is our first chance to reverse course.

Of course, Obama cannot simply say that he will compensate African-Americans for centuries of slavery and inhuman treatment because the forces of racism are still running the show. But when Obama speaks of giving back to the people, of giving us hope, and of creating change, he is speaking to his people and we must read between the lines. Obama won’t simply sign checks, but change the entire power structure to finally benefit our people. This includes investing in education in our neighborhoods, taking away ingrained privileges and ingrained racism in government. We will no longer be swept aside when Obama becomes the face of America. We cannot fail him.

Bush may have destroyed confidence in government, but Obama’s rise won’t be very easy. It won’t be easy to turn the tables against the racists that pretend to represent the nation. As president, he will be in the best position to destroy the idea that only the racial majority should be represented. He will combat special interests and small town prejudice that have hijacked government. Obama is not a revolutionary, a Black Panther, a Malcolm X, or a Farrakhan, but he has brought us closer to taking back from history what history took from us. America owes us.

7960 · 06-22-2008, 10:07 PM

Ironically, the only way I'll know we're getting past racism is if people band together to work against voting for the man just because he's black. When people are brave enough to stand up and say "He's only where he is because he's black and a good speaker" and risk being labeled racist for telling the truth, THEN I'll be sure we're making progress.

In other words, if he wins it'll be because people are too afraid of being called racist if they don't vote for him.

And I'm going to completely ignore the part about reparations. I've never heard a more stupid idea in my life.

C4Casey · 06-22-2008, 10:47 PM

Saying you have a right to Reparations for Slavery is like saying I have a right to Reparations for the English Occupation of Ireland. Slavery ended well over 100 years ago. Get over it. Oh, and we already have paid Reparations, in the form of over half a million lives lost in the war to end slavery, not to mention the nearly one million people who died several years after the war from wounds sustained during combat.

Simius · 06-23-2008, 01:13 AM

Obama is against reparations.

Simius · 06-23-2008, 01:32 AM

Originally Posted by 7960

Ironically, the only way I'll know we're getting past racism is if people band together to work against voting for the man just because he's black. When people are brave enough to stand up and say "He's only where he is because he's black and a good speaker" and risk being labeled racist for telling the truth, THEN I'll be sure we're making progress.

In other words, if he wins it'll be because people are too afraid of being called racist if they don't vote for him.

And I'm going to completely ignore the part about reparations. I've never heard a more stupid idea in my life.

Obama became the democratic nominee because he had a hell of an organization. Even in states he lost he got more delegates than his rivals because they knew how to focus their campaign. This election year favors the democrats. (Low approval rating for the Republican president, economy, war, etc). So, no matter who the dem nominee is he'd have a leg up on whoever the Republican nominee is. When he wins, it'll be largely due to people being sick of Republicans in charge and so they will punish them.

You might have a point if the dems lose seats in the house and senate yet Obama wins. But the dems will gain in both, of course (magic 8 ball has already been asked) Obama will win, regardless of his skin color.

You know how I'll know we are mostly getting past racism in this country? When people go "Oh that's nice" when a minority is running for president. None of the "He is only winning because he is black!!1!!!" BS and none of the "Holy shit! A black man is running, reparations are right around the corner" BS.... and certainly none of the "He is somehow different than any other presidential candidate that has run, something about him makes me uncomfortable but I can't put my finger on why... He must be a Muslim jihadist <or insert some other smear about him not being a true American and he hates this country>... that makes sense" BS.

Probably won't happen until after he is president for a term and people get more used to it. Sort of like how (IMO) people have become less wary of gays ever since shows like Will & Grace have aired which have made the idea less of a novelty and made people a bit less sensitized to the whole idea because they get exposed to it more.

Stylerod · 06-23-2008, 11:49 AM

The black communities have already been given trillions in reperations in the from of "welfare, food stamps, rent supplements, Section 8 housing, Pell grants, student loans, legal services, Medicaid, Earned Income Tax Credits and poverty programs..."

I don't expect the thread start to ever post again, but I wonder what everyone here things of this article by Pat Buchanan.

A Brief for Whitey
by Patrick J. Buchanan
Posted 03/21/2008 ET

Barack says we need to have a conversation about race in America.

Fair enough. But this time, it has to be a two-way conversation. White America needs to be heard from, not just lectured to.

This time, the Silent Majority needs to have its convictions, grievances and demands heard. And among them are these:

First, America has been the best country on earth for black folks. It was here that 600,000 black people, brought from Africa in slave ships, grew into a community of 40 million, were introduced to Christian salvation, and reached the greatest levels of freedom and prosperity blacks have ever known. Pastor Wright ought to go down on his knees and thank God he is an American.

Second, no people anywhere has done more to lift up blacks than white Americans. Untold trillions have been spent since the '60s on welfare, food stamps, rent supplements, Section 8 housing, Pell grants, student loans, legal services, Medicaid, Earned Income Tax Credits and poverty programs designed to bring the African-American community into the mainstream.

Governments, businesses and colleges have engaged in discrimination against white folks - with affirmative action, contract set-asides and quotas - to advance black applicants over white applicants.

Churches, foundations, civic groups, schools and individuals all over America have donated time and money to support soup kitchens, adult education, day care, retirement and nursing homes for blacks.

We hear the grievances. Where is the gratitude?

Barack talks about new "ladders of opportunity" for blacks. Let him go to Altoona and Johnstown and ask the white kids in Catholic schools how many were visited lately by Ivy League recruiters handing out scholarships for "deserving" white kids.

Is white America really responsible for the fact that the crime and incarceration rates for African-Americans are seven times those of white America? Is it really white America's fault that illegitimacy in the African-American community has hit 70 percent and the black dropout rate from high schools in some cities has reached 50 percent?

Is that the fault of white America or, first and foremost, a failure of the black community itself?

As for racism, its ugliest manifestation is in interracial crime, and especially interracial crimes of violence. Is Barack Obama aware that while white criminals choose black victims 3 percent of the time, black criminals choose white victims 45 percent of the time?

Is Barack aware that black-on-white rapes are 100 times more common than the reverse, that black-on-white robberies were 139 times as common in the first three years of this decade as the reverse?

We have all heard ad nauseam from the Rev. Al about Tawana Brawley, the Duke rape case and Jena . And all turned out to be hoaxes. But about the epidemic of black assaults on whites that are real, we hear nothing.

Sorry, Barack, some of us have heard it all before, about 40 years
and 40 trillion tax dollars ago.

chriswallace112 · 06-23-2008, 02:16 PM

I'm very sorry if my comments have been taken as disingenuous or as absurd, but lately this is something that I have been thinking about very carefully. I do not dispute that we have made advances in race relations and the treatment of African-Americans over the years. Of course, given the words written on the Declaration of Independence and the spirit of the Constitution, these corrections came much too late.

What did emancipation and civil rights actually do for African-Americans? Basically, it finally gave "equal" opportunities to all Americans regardless of race. I will not get into the "equality" as practice, which is not the same as theory as any black person can attest to. I am not here to discuss every grievance nor to highlight what some think is only a social problem, but that most in the black community think is an institutionalized type of racism that goes by a different name. I will take the question of equal opportunity at face value for the purpose of making my point.

While I agree that in this country hard work and ingenuity can pay off and that immigrants that came to this country haven't been asking for compensation... this view that African-Americans should just get in line like the rest of those who came to the new world is intellectually naive. Like entrepreneurs, immigrants that came to this country were escaping political or economic conditions and taking a big risk, hoping that they could achieve the American dream. They knew what they were getting into and they worked to get here. African slaves had no such luxury. They were forcibly removed from their homelands, bought and traded like mere commodities, had to endure humiliation and forced labor... and now, the nation that enslaved them and denied them this "American Dream" is asking us to get in line like everyone else, to suck it up because we now have opportunity. Is this right?

Immigrants wanted to take a chance and start at zero. African slaves were denied every opportunity and treated as second class citizens. That's a huge difference. And don't think that this is simply asking for a handout, personally I worked hard and do very well in life, but look at the disproportionate representation of blacks in prisons and performance in education. This is a general social problem that... ultimately requires a general social solution. Does that mean penalizing European immigrants who had nothing to do with slavery? I don't think that it should. Does it mean that the nation as a whole must understand that being American is to take responsibility for your brother? I think that the concept of "nation" means that we must consider old sins that are of a national or universal character, than simply saying "I wasn't there... deal with it." I am not spewing hatred or racism... in fact, nowadays people like Rev. Wright are condemned for what's considered "reverse-racism"... which is a slogan that is so often used to censor or silence legitimate (and sometimes illegitimate) grievances from a certain perspective. Come on... we haven't had it easy, why can't we explain what we feel, especially when we attribute family problems, drug problems, crime problems, education problems to these things we view as a continuation of a racist policy aimed against us. I don't think that white or brown or yellow America is as racist as in the past today... but then why should I fear taking a wrong turn in Texas or Mississippi? Americans should feel included in America... and lots of us don't. Basically, reparations, while not necessarily meaning emptying everyone's pockets for the benefit of African-Americans, will show that as a nation we are willing to repair this rift between what continues to be a divided America.

Will Obama be the answer? I hope he can start this dialogue again in America and explain why it’s necessary. He's brilliant. And I couldn't imagine that the first African-American (half white... touché) president would ignore the centuries old original sin of this country... this is what I feel and I wonder what everyone else thinks.. I don't hear too much about this in the MSM.

Stylerod · 06-23-2008, 04:01 PM

Blacks should not get reparations because no one that came forcibly as a slave is still alive.

This might seem racist in itself, but do you think if your forefathers had not been forced to come to the US that your lives would be better???? Looking at the history of Africa in the last couple hundred years, I would say no.

It's time to stop blaming white America for your failures and look into your own communities to see what you can do to bring each other up.

Oh, and this was stated before, Obama does not want reparations.

six6ftr · 06-23-2008, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

This might seem racist in itself, but do you think if your forefathers had not been forced to come to the US that your lives would be better???? Looking at the history of Africa in the last couple hundred years, I would say no.

Are you referring to Africa as a whole? My wife is from West Africa, her ancestors did very well in not becoming slaves and coming to america.

I would say that there is no telling how things would have turned out.

Stylerod · 06-23-2008, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by six6ftr

Are you referring to Africa as a whole? My wife is from West Africa, her ancestors did very well in not becoming slaves and coming to america.

I would say that there is no telling how things would have turned out.

Yes, Africa as a whole. And it seems your wife and her family ended up coming to the US anyway?

six6ftr · 06-23-2008, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Yes, Africa as a whole. And it seems your wife and her family ended up coming to the US anyway?

Her father's job transferred him to the states.

Stylerod · 06-23-2008, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by six6ftr

Her father's job transferred him to the states.

Good for them! Are they happy?

7960 · 06-23-2008, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by chriswallace112

Does that mean penalizing European immigrants who had nothing to do with slavery? I don't think that it should.

So you want native americans (indians) to pay reparations to blacks? Because if you're not going to have european immigrants do it then who else does it leave to pay?

I am not spewing ... racism

You're asking for reparations. By definition you're spewing racism.

Come on... we haven't had it easy, why can't we explain what we feel, especially when we attribute family problems, drug problems, crime problems, education problems to these things we view as a continuation of a racist policy aimed against us.

But somehow a check is going to make it "easier"? Make it "right"?

I don't think that white or brown or yellow America is as racist as in the past today... but then why should I fear taking a wrong turn in Texas or Mississippi?

For the same reason I fear taking a wrong turn in atlanta or the bronx.

Basically, reparations, while not necessarily meaning emptying everyone's pockets for the benefit of African-Americans,

Not NECESSARILY? You mean part of you thinks everyone's pockets SHOULD be emptied??!?!?

So I'll tell you what...I'll write a check for $1,000 today to pay reparations for this country's "past sins." I'll even get all my friends to do it, and I'll go on TV and get every "european" and other immigrant to do it, on one condition. We end all social programs and put that tax money back in my wallet. If we're going to cut you a check for being black then we're going to do this thing one time. You won't ever again be able to expect extra points added to your test scores or to go to the front of the admissions line because of your skin color. From now on you'll be treated just like everyone else and your black skin won't get you anything extra.

Deal?

six6ftr · 06-24-2008, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Good for them! Are they happy?

They were happy either way. Coming to the states was not a life changing event for them. They were never poor.

motivez · 06-24-2008, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Blacks should not get reparations because no one that came forcibly as a slave is still alive.

This might seem racist in itself, but do you think if your forefathers had not been forced to come to the US that your lives would be better???? Looking at the history of Africa in the last couple hundred years, I would say no.

It's time to stop blaming white America for your failures and look into your own communities to see what you can do to bring each other up.

Oh, and this was stated before, Obama does not want reparations.

Sounds a lot like you're saying they should be thankful that their ancestors were enslaved, is that the case or am I misreading what you're saying here?

chriswallace112 · 06-24-2008, 07:23 PM

Many people believe that the problems in the Africa-American community are self made. To an extent, the problems in all communities are self made... but the big difference with African-Americans is the fact that there was a multi-century campaign to completely oppress them. First because we were mere property... later because of grandfather clauses and Jim Crow laws... nowadays you hear public outcry whenever a black activist talks about their experiences and their opinions. Maybe the general public is right, they certainly have the right, just as black socially conscious people have the same right to speak their minds from their perspective. Do we ignore that African-Americans were oppressed and their children and their children's children economically, politically, and culturally handicapped by years of enslavement and subsequent oppression... just because those slaves are not around today? Do we ignore that on the backs of black laborers, the racial majority built an economic juggernaut?

I think it to be naive to look at individual responsibility, when the problem is against an entire group... simply because they looked "different."

Scrum · 06-24-2008, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

Sounds a lot like you're saying they should be thankful that their ancestors were enslaved, is that the case or am I misreading what you're saying here?

By that reasoning, the Jews should be extremely happy that the holocaust happened. They got a whole country out of the deal.

DosEquis · 06-25-2008, 01:40 AM

Originally Posted by chriswallace112

Many people believe that the problems in the Africa-American community are self made. To an extent, the problems in all communities are self made... but the big difference with African-Americans is the fact that there was a multi-century campaign to completely oppress them. First because we were mere property... later because of grandfather clauses and Jim Crow laws... nowadays you hear public outcry whenever a black activist talks about their experiences and their opinions. Maybe the general public is right, they certainly have the right, just as black socially conscious people have the same right to speak their minds from their perspective. Do we ignore that African-Americans were oppressed and their children and their children's children economically, politically, and culturally handicapped by years of enslavement and subsequent oppression... just because those slaves are not around today? Do we ignore that on the backs of black laborers, the racial majority built an economic juggernaut?

I think it to be naive to look at individual responsibility, when the problem is against an entire group... simply because they looked "different."

I understand what you are saying. It is not a matter of ignoring those that were oppressed and abused in the past. We all know history and any person with half a brain knows what took place was wrong in the worst of ways. Same would go for the native americans, and you could make a convincing argument that it was genocide. Can you imagine the reaction if the country tried to say we would put black people on reservations? They tried seperate schools and toilets..how about seperate land to put them on nearly isolating them completely.

Anyway those handicaps are not drastic like they used to be. An argument can be made for inner city schools not providing educations, but i can say as someone who has tought classes... the student has to want to learn also. There has to be some self accountability and motivation there. The avenues for help are there if needed. It is up to the person to choose between learning or going to school to smoke weed between class. It is up to the person to choose between seeking help or selling drugs to make ends. The way our country is today you nearly have to want to fail. Not everyone is going to be rich, but you can make a living and an honest one at that. It just takes some effort. Help is there for set backs. It applies to any race or sex. What was said was not directed at any race. The student I had that would smoke weed on breaks was a white kid named kevin.

chriswallace112 · 06-25-2008, 02:01 AM

Originally Posted by DosEquis

I understand what you are saying. It is not a matter of ignoring those that were oppressed and abused in the past. We all know history and any person with half a brain knows what took place was wrong in the worst of ways. Same would go for the native americans, and you could make a convincing argument that it was genocide. Can you imagine the reaction if the country tried to say we would put black people on reservations? They tried seperate schools and toilets..how about seperate land to put them on nearly isolating them completely.

Anyway those handicaps are not drastic like they used to be. An argument can be made for inner city schools not providing educations, but i can say as someone who has tought classes... the student has to want to learn also. There has to be some self accountability and motivation there. The avenues for help are there if needed. It is up to the person to choose between learning or going to school to smoke weed between class. It is up to the person to choose between seeking help or selling drugs to make ends. The way our country is today you nearly have to want to fail. Not everyone is going to be rich, but you can make a living and an honest one at that. It just takes some effort. Help is there for set backs. It applies to any race or sex. What was said was not directed at any race. The student I had that would smoke weed on breaks was a white kid named kevin.

Thanks for your candidness. I am not only conscious of the argument that you are expressing against reparations, I agree. I am not saying that Africa-Americans need an immediate form of monetary compensation for their suffering, but some sort of reconciliation between history and the races is necessary for America to be able to put this behind her. This means that we must talk about reparations... truly "reparations" to repair race relation, to repair historical crimes, to repair the abuse. Should the black community be a bit more introspective about its problems? Certainly. Should America as a nation be willing to talk about reparations without thinking that people at the extreme ends of the political spectrum are bringing it up? Absolutely.

Obama's version of reparations, as he talked about at a debate, includes investment in education, which can only mean investing in inner city schools and schools with higher than average African-American populations. He will go further in order to establish himself as something more than a teachers's pet and be the man who is able to right America's wrongs and move forward on international relations and domestic relations. I say that we must work on our culture.. I only ask for the possibility of compensati