Legalise all drugs, say Lib Dems

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by lew

Have you studied Prohibition at all? Or even why drugs laws were created in the first place?

Alcohol and cigs are not related to crime. But during Prohibition, they were. All the booze runners were also involved in murder, prostitution, and other illegal crimes. Once alcohol was made legal again, those ties were severed.


And drugs were legal for centuries before becoming illegal due to racist propaganda. There is NO LINK between drugs and violent crime. There is only a link between illegal activities and other illegal activities.

Like I said. Watch Intervention. These peoples lives weren't ruined because what they are doing is illegal. They are ruined because they are addicts. I never smoked crack, did cocane, heroine or any of that shit growing up because I knew those were the hard core no/no drugs. Now, if they were available at the bar I went to, I might have given them a try and who knows what would have turned out.

Cigs and alcohol are already killing people. On TV you see video's of people shooting store clerks so they can get their cigs and beer. Giving people free access to EXTREMELY addictive drugs will only make that worse.

[IminWonderland]

Originally Posted by lew

Why should we be jailing people for engaging into a capitalist process and selling goods. It's quite retarded.

Reminds me of the SOAD song...

"Minor drug offenders fill your prisons
you don't even flinch
all our taxes paying for your wars
against the new non-rich"

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by beez

Tax it like alcohol or cigarettes (outside of NYC/CA where it is a prohibitive tax) and put that money into catching serious criminals. ftw!

We already put money into catching criminals, and with less criminals (if drugs were legalized), then it would be like having more money to fight real crime.

I'd like the tax to be used to support treatment centers for people who want to help themselves.

But I'm against compulsory treatment. The first step to solving your problems is to really want to solve your problems (instead of just telling people you do). Forcing people to go to treatment won't help those that don't want help.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by lew

Mandatory treatment is equally retarded. People won't receive help unless they want help. Forcing someone to get "treatment" just wastes time and money.

They already do that by forcing people into 12 step programs (which is a whole 'nother can of worrms).

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

We already put money into catching criminals, and with less criminals (if drugs were legalized), then it would be like having more money to fight real crime.

Does it get any more win-win?

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Cigs and alcohol are already killing people. On TV you see video's of people shooting store clerks so they can get their cigs and beer. Giving people free access to EXTREMELY addictive drugs will only make that worse.

You see people killing over money too, should we not allow people to have large sums of it?

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

Does it get any more win-win?

Now if only more people saw it that way

But too many think that the only thing keeping us from having a society full of drugs users running naked through the streets and stealing shit is the fact that drugs are illegal.

[lew]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Like I said. Watch Intervention. These peoples lives weren't ruined because what they are doing is illegal. They are ruined because they are addicts. I never smoked crack, did cocane, heroine or any of that shit growing up because I knew those were the hard core no/no drugs. Now, if they were available at the bar I went to, I might have given them a try and who knows what would have turned out.

Cigs and alcohol are already killing people. On TV you see video's of people shooting store clerks so they can get their cigs and beer. Giving people free access to EXTREMELY addictive drugs will only make that worse.

I've also seen videos of people shooting store clerks because they need food. Should food be banned as well?


In both situations, neither the food nor the alcohol is the problem. The people are. If we actually had a sensible government in place, that didn't jail drug offenders, but actually severely punished true criminals, plus had all the knowledge out about how damaging drugs can be, only a minority of people will use them. And when it's not a crime anymore, people will be able to seek help more easily than now if they have an addiction problem. The thought process that says that if all drugs were legal then our whole nation would become coke and meth addicts is retarded and not based in ANY science.

[IminWonderland]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Like I said. Watch Intervention. These peoples lives weren't ruined because what they are doing is illegal. They are ruined because they are addicts. I never smoked crack, did cocane, heroine or any of that shit growing up because I knew those were the hard core no/no drugs. Now, if they were available at the bar I went to, I might have given them a try and who knows what would have turned out.

Cigs and alcohol are already killing people. On TV you see video's of people shooting store clerks so they can get their cigs and beer. Giving people free access to EXTREMELY addictive drugs will only make that worse.

I believe with addiction, people who become addicts, it isn't because of the substance, it's who they are. A person who is an addict, could easily be addicted to something that is just as destructive to them and their families, if it weren't for drugs being availble to them. Porn, Caffeine, Nicotine, Alcohol, Shopping, plastic surgery, these are all potentially addictive behaviors.

Just because a small portion of the public can't handle themselves, doesn't mean that everyone else should have to be legistlated.

I have tried most drugs. I am not addicted. And I am not a bad person for it. It's called personal responsibility, if we want people to have it with their retirement, their health care, and other things we don't want tax dollars to pay for, then we have to start with the simple ingestion process.

[lew]

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

Reminds me of the SOAD song...

"Minor drug offenders fill your prisons
you don't even flinch
all our taxes paying for your wars
against the new non-rich"

Prison Song

[lew]

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

They already do that by forcing people into 12 step programs (which is a whole 'nother can of worrms).

Which should be repealed along with the other 1,908,340,325,098,325 laws that we have now that we shouldn't.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by lew

I've also seen videos of people shooting store clerks because they need food. Should food be banned as well?


In both situations, neither the food nor the alcohol is the problem. The people are. If we actually had a sensible government in place, that didn't jail drug offenders, but actually severely punished true criminals, plus had all the knowledge out about how damaging drugs can be, only a minority of people will use them. And when it's not a crime anymore, people will be able to seek help more easily than now if they have an addiction problem. The thought process that says that if all drugs were legal then our whole nation would become coke and meth addicts is retarded and not based in ANY science.

And if we didn't have people sitting in our prisons for idiotic drug charges, we wouldn't have nearly the overcrowding.

Real criminals wouldn't be let out after only serving a small percentage of their sentance.

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

They already do that by forcing people into 12 step programs (which is a whole 'nother can of worrms).

The South Park about 12 Step programs is

[garbagemanlb]

Originally Posted by lew

Mandatory treatment is equally retarded. People won't receive help unless they want help. Forcing someone to get "treatment" just wastes time and money.

So let them completely spiral down and hit rock bottom before trying to rigorously help them? I'm sorry, but I think that is a foolish thing to do, as it only increases the chances of criminal activity later on.

I simply do not understand why you have such a lax attitude towards drugs such as meth, which has been spreading throughout the U.S. and has caused increased crime rates in numerous areas.

Arizona battles top-of-the-chart crime rates as meth use increases | csmonitor.com
The Faces Of Meth, Addictive, Destructive Drug Causes Cities To Struggle For Solutions - CBS News

Legalize shit like this? I'm sorry, but that is foolish. Create an extensive treatment program, including mandatory testing and whatnot, and keep up with the individuals in a probation-like manner.

I see absolutely no way that legalizing a drug like this can have any positive effects.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

I believe with addiction, people who become addicts, it isn't because of the substance, it's who they are. A person who is an addict, could easily be addicted to something that is just as destructive to them and their families, if it weren't for drugs being availble to them. Porn, Caffeine, Nicotine, Alcohol, Shopping, plastic surgery, these are all potentially addictive behaviors.

Just because a small portion of the public can't handle themselves, doesn't mean that everyone else should have to be legistlated.

I have tried most drugs. I am not addicted. And I am not a bad person for it. It's called personal responsibility, if we want people to have it with their retirement, their health care, and other things we don't want tax dollars to pay for, then we have to start with the simple ingestion process.

Amen sister.

[IminWonderland]

Originally Posted by lew

Prison Song

They have a good point though...

My Dad was a "minor drug offender". I didn't have my Dad most my childhood because he was locked up for possession, and intent to distribute.

I don't blame him for selling, my life was alot better when he was selling than it was him being locked up. I didn't find out why he was always locked up until I was in my late teens, and all I could think was, HOW GAY IS THIS? And I didn't start my own experimentation until I was an adult. But, even then I thought, what good is this guy being locked up? He's much more useful being out. And the last time he went in, he went into a jail rehab program...he came out, and he was like "I'm clean, and I'm not doing it anymore." Which is like, OK good for you, but he still as addictive behavior, and now he makes way less money.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

The South Park about 12 Step programs is

Never saw it.

Ever see the Bullshit! episode on 12 steps?

[lew]

Originally Posted by garbagemanlb

So let them completely spiral down and hit rock bottom before trying to rigorously help them? I'm sorry, but I think that is a foolish thing to do, as it only increases the chances of criminal activity later on.

I simply do not understand why you have such a lax attitude towards drugs such as meth, which has been spreading throughout the U.S. and has caused increased crime rates in numerous areas.

Arizona battles top-of-the-chart crime rates as meth use increases | csmonitor.com
The Faces Of Meth, Addictive, Destructive Drug Causes Cities To Struggle For Solutions - CBS News

Legalize shit like this? I'm sorry, but that is foolish. Create an extensive treatment program, including mandatory testing and whatnot, and keep up with the individuals in a probation-like manner.

I see absolutely no way that legalizing a drug like this can have any positive effects.

Usually when cops report that crime has increased in a meth area, the only crime being increased is meth!


Meth addicts are people with problems. Just like anyone else with problems. That doesn't mean they go around killing and raping people. And if one of them does, then arrest them for killing and raping people!

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by garbagemanlb

So let them completely spiral down and hit rock bottom before trying to rigorously help them? I'm sorry, but I think that is a foolish thing to do, as it only increases the chances of criminal activity later on.

I simply do not understand why you have such a lax attitude towards drugs such as meth, which has been spreading throughout the U.S. and has caused increased crime rates in numerous areas.

Arizona battles top-of-the-chart crime rates as meth use increases | csmonitor.com
The Faces Of Meth, Addictive, Destructive Drug Causes Cities To Struggle For Solutions - CBS News

Legalize shit like this? I'm sorry, but that is foolish. Create an extensive treatment program, including mandatory testing and whatnot, and keep up with the individuals in a probation-like manner.

I see absolutely no way that legalizing a drug like this can have any positive effects.

One of the most dangerous things about meth is the process in which it is made. I'