A city that is completely privately owned in Minnesota

[Dylith]

Originally Posted by lew

It all depends upon a multitude of other factors.


Private roads have to be paid for somehow, either with property taxes, tolls, or some other method.


I am not opposed to all property taxes. It all depends upon the whole scheme of things.

If they tax your property, income, and purchases, all at high levels, then sure, I probably wouldn't want to live in a place like that.


But just because they tax property means nothing to me. I need to evaluate the whole system they have setup there.


Thus far, I'm impressed. No public property at all? All private property. Sounds great.

Just becuase it is all private proterty doesn't mean that these people don't benefit from public services.

They still consume publically funded national defense, they can still skip town and head to a hospital that will take them even if they don't have insurance, they are consumers of publically funded clean air through government regulations and still benefit from the externalities of public education as well as public infrastructure throughout the country. They are protected by safety regulations and by state and federal laws as well.

They live in a politcally stable region which is politically stable because of the strength of our centralized governments, they do not have to worry about poverty, or violent crime. They are safe, they are sheltered.

Opperate an anarcho capitalistic country that doesn't fall apart and i'll be impressed.

[7960]

Originally Posted by lew

First reply for excuses to start coming out, pretty quick.

it's not an excuse, it's a explanation.

create a gated community with a $160,000/year income as a qualifier to get in and you're going to get an entirely different community than if you did it with "regular" working folks.

[motivez]

So wait a minute, is this really a city, with its own mayor, etc.. or just an expensive gated community with a HOA?

[7960]

Originally Posted by motivez

So wait a minute, is this really a city, with its own mayor, etc.. or just an expensive gated community with a HOA?

The local government in North Oaks is comprised of a Mayor that serves a two-year term and four Councilmembers that serve staggered four-year terms. North Oaks is now a statutory fourth class City that was incorporated into a Village on July 17, 1956. On November 7, 1957 that name was changed from North Oaks Village to simply North Oaks. The City Council meets on the second Thursday of each month at 7:30 P.M. at the East Recreation Center located at 5 Mink Lane.

http://www.cityofnorth-oaks.com/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={537E8CE4-B31A-4AED-A4DA-F6D0ED5B2C10}&DE=

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by 7960

The local government in North Oaks is comprised of a Mayor that serves a two-year term and four Councilmembers that serve staggered four-year terms. North Oaks is now a statutory fourth class City that was incorporated into a Village on July 17, 1956. On November 7, 1957 that name was changed from North Oaks Village to simply North Oaks. The City Council meets on the second Thursday of each month at 7:30 P.M. at the East Recreation Center located at 5 Mink Lane.

http://www.cityofnorth-oaks.com/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={537E8CE4-B31A-4AED-A4DA-F6D0ED5B2C10}&DE=

The only difference between that and an HOA seems to be it's incorporated by the state as a city rather than an HOA

For a good time, go to the city's home page, go to City Services -> Sheriff's Department

[motivez]

So they rely on everyone else to pay for their police?

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by motivez

So they rely on everyone else to pay for their police?

I'm sure they pay for it in some sort of taxes. This is far from an independent city though - I bet they use water systems and other infrastructure as well as simple services like police.

I can't see any practical difference between this city and any HOA.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by motivez

So they rely on everyone else to pay for their police?

They use the county sherriff's office which I'm sure is part of their high taxes. As far as the potholes goes, the roads don't appear to be paved. So that kinda nips that question in the bud.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Phantom

I'm sure they pay for it in some sort of taxes. This is far from an independent city though - I bet they use water systems and other infrastructure as well as simple services like police.

I can't see any practical difference between this city and any HOA.

There really is none that I can see other than they didn't put in paved roads and the home owners just allow people to drive through on predetermined paths.

I find it hard to see how this town fulfills the requirements of a libertarian oasis. Their property taxes are very high, they utilize many county and state services and it wouldn't be at all plausible unless the people living there were wealthy enough to sustain the high monetary costs of living in this "libertarian" town.

[JaJae]

I take that back, there appears to be about 5 paved roads...

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by JaJae

I take that back, there appears to be about 5 paved roads...

For 4500 people... that's a lot

[lew]

I never claimed it was a libertarian paradise.


I posted a city that has no government / public property.

People here have claimed that a city that existed like that couldn't exist in reality / practicality.


Well, it does.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

For 4500 people... that's a lot

I'm trying to figure it all out.. I'm looking at maps..
The City of North Oaks, Minnesota Residential Development Areas

Most pictures I'm seeing have dirt roads... I'm not too sure though.

Here's some info on their infrastructure..

Electric power, telephone service, cable television, and natural gas are all available. Most of the homes have on site sewage systems, but the homes on Hodgson Road, at Red Maple Marsh, Deer Hills, The Summits, Rapp Farm and The Pines are served by the metropolitan sewage system. With the exception of the southeast area of the city where many homes are on municipal water, most homes have private wells.

The North Oaks Home Owners’ Association is responsible for road maintenance and all recreational facilities. Apart from one short stretch of road entering the city, all of the North Oaks roads are privately owned. Recreational facilities include 25 miles of trails, tennis courts, ball fields, and a beach with canoe access. The trails connect all residential areas and also wend through the 620 acre Conservation Area. For more information on the trail system and the Conservation Area, see the June 1999 newsletter.

Who We Are

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by lew

I never claimed it was a libertarian paradise.


I posted a city that has no government / public property.

People here have claimed that a city that existed like that couldn't exist in reality / practicality.


Well, it does.

There is a government, it just goes by a different name and they are still using the services of government. It also happens to be one of the highest income towns in America.
Highest-income places in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, 8 years ago their property taxes were roughly $6k each. I don't know what they are now, but I imagine it would be a lot higher.

[Dylith]

Originally Posted by lew

I never claimed it was a libertarian paradise.


I posted a city that has no government / public property.

People here have claimed that a city that existed like that couldn't exist in reality / practicality.


Well, it does.

I doubt that people stated that towns can't exist like this, this isn't an anarcho capitalistic town nor are they situated within an anarcho-capitalistic state.

It is an anarcho capitalist state that I don't think can really exist, not with any stability at least.

[Dylith]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

For 4500 people... that's a lot

I live in a town of about 5000 people, and four roads for that type of population isn't very much.


/edit Scratch that, our population is only around 4500-4700, so roughly the same size as this community.

[lew]

Originally Posted by JaJae

There is a government, it just goes by a different name and they are still using the services of government. It also happens to be one of the highest income towns in America.
Highest-income places in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, 8 years ago their property taxes were roughly $6k each. I don't know what they are now, but I imagine it would be a lot higher.

I didn't say it didn't have a government.

I said it didn't have government property.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by motivez

Half way across the street? So what happens if the person decides they don't want people using that part of the street anymore, want to demolish it and build a fountain or something?

Congrats to them for setting this place up though. When are you guys moving there?

Then everyone else in town will tell that guy that he may not trespass on their property.


Oh, and he'd likely be in violation of private contracts. I'd imagine that these guys have contractual obligations to maintain their roads.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by lew

Numerous reasons.


First, it's a federal republic that recognizes strong states' rights.

Second, I love the country's stance on neutrality. They haven't been to war in almost 200 years.

Third, they have an amazing economy. They have reasonable taxes (I'd still like them lower, sure ) and support free trade. (with the exception of agricultural protectionism) Their currency also rests on some sort of weird, half-assed gold standard.

Fourth, they have moderate immigration laws.

Fifth, they have close to direct democracy, which in particular I like because anyone can (with the correct amount of signatures) put up a bill to abolish any law that they don't like by putting it on a ballot and letting it be voted upon.

Sixth, 3 of the 4 major political parties in the country lean towards libertarianism / conservativism / right-wing populism.

Seventh, they have a rich culture that I absolutely love.

Eighth, most people in the country are religiously Christian and many are culturally conservative. (their laws are fairly libertarian, however)

Ninth, the country is beautiful.

Tenth, they are not a member of the European Union.

I kept waiting for you to mention their position on gun control.