Spanish parliament extends rights to apes

motivez · 06-26-2008, 01:35 PM

MADRID (Reuters) - Spain's parliament voiced its support on Wednesday for the rights of great apes to life and freedom in what will apparently be the first time any national legislature has called for such rights for non-humans.

Parliament's environmental committee approved resolutions urging Spain to comply with the Great Apes Project, devised by scientists and philosophers who say our closest genetic relatives deserve rights hitherto limited to humans.

"This is a historic day in the struggle for animal rights and in defense of our evolutionary comrades, which will doubtless go down in the history of humanity," said Pedro Pozas, Spanish director of the Great Apes Project.

Spain may be better known abroad for bull-fighting than animal rights but the new measures are the latest move turning once-conservative Spain into a liberal trailblazer.

Spain did not legalize divorce until the 1980s, but Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero's Socialist government has legalized gay marriage, reduced the influence of the Catholic Church in education and set up an Equality Ministry.

The new resolutions have cross-party or majority support and are expected to become law and the government is now committed to update the statute book within a year to outlaw harmful experiments on apes in Spain.

"We have no knowledge of great apes being used in experiments in Spain, but there is currently no law preventing that from happening," Pozas said.

Keeping apes for circuses, television commercials or filming will also be forbidden and breaking the new laws will become an offence under Spain's penal code.

Keeping an estimated 315 apes in Spanish zoos will not be illegal, but supporters of the bill say conditions will need to improve drastically in 70 percent of establishments to comply with the new law.

Philosophers Peter Singer and Paola Cavalieri founded the Great Ape Project in 1993, arguing that "non-human hominids" like chimpanzees, gorillas, orang-utans and bonobos should enjoy the right to life, freedom and not to be tortured.

Spanish parliament to extend rights to apes | Science | Reuters

What do you guys think about this?

I don't like the idea of medical testing on animals, but I understand why it's necessary to develop drugs and other stuff which benefit humanity

But I'm definitely conflicted, as a species we've condemned hundreds of thousands of animals to lives of torture and confinement for our own purposes.. I'm not going to go so far as to say we shouldn't be eating meat, if slaughtered humanely, I don't think it's in the same league as injecting apes with AIDS or subjecting them to radiation, knowing the pain and misery they'll have to suffer through

thewise1 · 06-26-2008, 01:48 PM

I'm not really sure what to say. I guess I haven't really formed many, if any, opinions on the subject. I do think it's wrong to make animals suffer, but I've pulled the trigger, as it were, on more than a few cattle and deer myself, and did my best to ensure it was quick.

motivez · 06-26-2008, 01:50 PM

Yeah, I mean.. if you slaughter something humanely and are using it for something (I don't agree with sport killing, personally, and wouldn't take part in it), food, clothing, or whatever.. I don't think there's anything wrong with it

But some of the research done is honestly really horrible to think about.. even though we all enjoy the results.

Donkey® · 06-26-2008, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

Spanish parliament to extend rights to apes | Science | Reuters

What do you guys think about this?

I don't like the idea of medical testing on animals, but I understand why it's necessary to develop drugs and other stuff which benefit humanity

Not attacking you, but I hate this line of thinking.

"Hey, it's ok if we wipe out other species while we benefit ours."

I think we need to stop animal testing and go to human testing. It's more reliable I am sure.

thewise1 · 06-26-2008, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Not attacking you, but I hate this line of thinking.

"Hey, it's ok if we wipe out other species while we benefit ours."

I think we need to stop animal testing and go to human testing. It's more reliable I am sure.

What species are we wiping out with testing?

thewise1 · 06-26-2008, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

Yeah, I mean.. if you slaughter something humanely and are using it for something (I don't agree with sport killing, personally, and wouldn't take part in it), food, clothing, or whatever.. I don't think there's anything wrong with it

But some of the research done is honestly really horrible to think about.. even though we all enjoy the results.

I don't think sport killing (of animals

) should be illegal per se but I wouldn't participate either, as I find it kind of distasteful.

Donkey® · 06-26-2008, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by thewise1

What species are we wiping out with testing?

It was tongue in cheek.

thewise1 · 06-26-2008, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

It was tongue in cheek.

Just that part of your post or the whole thing?

motivez · 06-26-2008, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by thewise1

I don't think sport killing (of animals ) should be illegal per se but I wouldn't participate either, as I find it kind of distasteful.

Yeah, I don't see how people can take pleasure in killing an animal like a deer or something for sport. They're beautiful creatures, every time I see one I just can't imagine what would drive someone to say "Hey, I think I'll make that thing bleed to death."

I haven't really thought about the legality aspect of it, I just don't find it morally palatable.

thewise1 · 06-26-2008, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

Yeah, I don't see how people can take pleasure in killing an animal like a deer or something for sport. They're beautiful creatures, every time I see one I just can't imagine what would drive someone to say "Hey, I think I'll make that thing bleed to death."

I haven't really thought about the legality aspect of it, I just don't find it morally palatable.

Ya, when I have hunted I have used the meat.

Donkey® · 06-26-2008, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by thewise1

Just that part of your post or the whole thing?

My official stance is that if we're doing research or testing to benefit humans, we should be doing it on humans.

I hate the whole "humans are the chosen ones" attitude.

thewise1 · 06-26-2008, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

My official stance is that if we're doing research or testing to benefit humans, we should be doing it on humans.

I hate the whole "humans are the chosen ones" attitude.

Why is that? I'm curious what makes you tick, in this context.

Donkey® · 06-26-2008, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by thewise1

Why is that? I'm curious what makes you tick, in this context.

I look at myself as being no better than any other animal. That's all. I am not a PETA member nor am I out there advocating for animal rights...this is just a personal opinion. I do eat them and if this were the stoneage, I would grab my spear and kill them. But I just don't see the point in killing animals for anything but food.

thewise1 · 06-26-2008, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

I look at myself as being no better than any other animal. That's all. I am not a PETA member nor am I out there advocating for animal rights...this is just a personal opinion. I do eat them and if this were the stoneage, I would grab my spear and kill them. But I just don't see the point in killing animals for anything but food.

If it appears I'm really hammering on you for answers, I apologize, but I'm curious what differentiates the need for food from the need for technological advancement for humankind, in your eyes?

Hopefully that makes sense...

Ardentfrost · 06-26-2008, 02:46 PM

I dunno man... if animals are as good as us, then I expect them to start creating civilizations. Until that time, humans are better.

I mean, we are better than animals at both points of life: expanding our species (eg., have sex and make babies) and living as long as possible (which kinda ties into the "have sex make babies" part). We can over-populate areas and still live. We live longer now than we ever have in the past.

How are humans not better than animals?

Scrum · 06-26-2008, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

How are humans not better than animals?

We are animals.

We just happen to be the dominate one at this moment.

Ardentfrost · 06-26-2008, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by Scrum

We are animals.

We just happen to be the dominate one at this moment.

Right. Thus, better.

Donkey® · 06-26-2008, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by thewise1

If it appears I'm really hammering on you for answers, I apologize, but I'm curious what differentiates the need for food from the need for technological advancement for humankind, in your eyes?

Hopefully that makes sense...

I think the difference is the level of exploitation. To me, killing animals in order to keep our society going comes in degrees. Eating is a necessity. We are omnivores...like a bear I guess. We don't eat each other (which is natural as most other species don't) so we eat other animals. That keeps our species going in this world. Research on other species to advance our own is more of an exploitation if you ask me. I think of it like this...if we're not alone in the universe...and we're not the most "advanced" species in existence, certainly you wouldn't advocate that other species using humans in that manner?

I know the other part of that is "what if the other species eats meat too?" Well then we're fucked like cows. But in all seriousness...I think the use of animals in research to benefit our species just doesn't seem like the "advanced" thing to do. We're supposed to be this great species...yet we don't act like it.

Donkey® · 06-26-2008, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

I dunno man... if animals are as good as us, then I expect them to start creating civilizations. Until that time, humans are better.

I mean, we are better than animals at both points of life: expanding our species (eg., have sex and make babies) and living as long as possible (which kinda ties into the "have sex make babies" part). We can over-populate areas and still live. We live longer now than we ever have in the past.

How are humans not better than animals?

That's the type of elitism I am talking about. If we're so great, why do we act so idiotic? It's times like these I really wish polar bears would say "fuck you" and start building shit and enslaving us.