Interstate abortion bill nears passage - Page 2

Scrum · 07-25-2006, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

Little prick should have to pay for something

The guys get off so easy in cases like this where the girl keeps her mouth shut and gets the abortion. I'm sure the stress is a overwhelming, but they get off easy by comparison.

Definitely, but I also think a bill like this will affect less of them than it will the girls friends or family.

IminWonderland · 07-25-2006, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Oh, I certainly feel the same way. But then, I don't want to raise my child to make decisions based on being afraid of the consequences, but to make decisions because they are knowledgable on the subject. Therefore, if my child chose to have sex at 16, then I would hope that I had raised and educated them well enough to use protection, not only to prevent conception, but to lessen the chances of getting an STD. I would want them to be knowledgable about the STDs and what the chances are of getting them when using a condom.

Education and knowledge > * when making decisions. Misinformation, in my opinion, is the biggest cause of making poor decisions, and MANY institutions (be it church, school, or otherwise) propagate misinformation

Yeah, I agree, because I would be like Focker's Mom in Meet the Focker's...

He'd be like...MOM STOP! I DON'T WANT TO KNOW ANYMORE!!!!!!!!!!!

IminWonderland · 07-25-2006, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

I think the state lines thing is a good idea really. I'm pro-choice in that I think women should have the right to decide, but I don't think another adult should be able to transport a minor to another state to get an aboriton. Who knows if they're being pressured or otherwise?

If another adult is transporting the minor, I think there should have to be parental consent for the adult to do the transportation. If they go themselves and manage to get bus tickets or whatever, it should probably be their choice whether or not to inform.

IMO, if the parent has done their job as a parent and earned the trust of their child without being overly judgemental, etc, then their daughter is likely to discuss things like this with them anyway.

On the other hand, if they've been judgemental, or are seriously religious, or might kick them out or whatever.. I can fully understand why they might want to have the ability not to inform them.

Obviously there are exceptions, but I'd be willing to bet that's the case for most cases. I'd certainly want to know if it was my kid though

But in most states, isn't this already a law, about transporting minors across state lines? I am pretty sure it is in California...so the only point of this is to add the abortion part of it...what the heck for except to impress a social change?

JaJae · 07-25-2006, 09:42 PM

Well good old Ron Burgundy let us know the bill just passed..

Senate passes interstate abortion bill (AP)

AP - A bill that would make it a crime to take a pregnant girl across state lines for an abortion without her parents' knowledge passed the Senate Tuesday, but vast differences with the House version stood between the measure and President Bush's desk.

Kytro · 07-25-2006, 09:57 PM

I don't think it is a particualry good law. Unless there something showing that this is a reasonable proble that is happening, and how it is a problem, I don't support legal intervention.

Threre are already way to many laws.

6SpeedTA95 · 07-25-2006, 11:52 PM

What is the deal with this coat hanger thing? I mean seriously...I know three people who have had abortions ALL three regret it and wish it had been harder and that they had been told about the very real downsides to getting an abortion.

I'm for this bill because I feel parents have a right to know whats going on with their CHILDREN. An 18 year old can do whatever they choose with reguards to abortion but I minor needs to have parents in the loop on major medical procedures.

Kytro · 07-25-2006, 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

I'm for this bill because I feel parents have a right to know whats going on with their CHILDREN. An 18 year old can do whatever they choose with reguards to abortion but I minor needs to have parents in the loop on major medical procedures.

While I feel that parents should be informed, I get a bit sick of passsing new law all the time, unless it is a serious problem.

Basically I'm not a fan of passing law for possible little issue that might crop up, or one or two isolated, but very public cases

7960 · 07-26-2006, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

What is the deal with this coat hanger thing? I mean seriously...I know three people who have had abortions ALL three regret it and wish it had been harder and that they had been told about the very real downsides to getting an abortion.

Exactly what are the downsides?

And I don't like the idea that because your three friends didn't fully consider what they were doing you think lawmakers should pass a law that affects everyone else. Maybe your 3 friends should have done more soul searching. I can think of two women who had abortions and, although they're not proud of it, they both know it was the best choice.

I'm for this bill because I feel parents have a right to know whats going on with their CHILDREN. An 18 year old can do whatever they choose with reguards to abortion but I minor needs to have parents in the loop on major medical procedures.

Disagree. Parents do not have a right to know and should not.

A question I have that I didn't see anywhere is what about a 16 year old girl who drives herself? Is that still allowed or will she be prosecuted?

Scrum · 07-26-2006, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

A question I have that I didn't see anywhere is what about a 16 year old girl who drives herself? Is that still allowed or will she be prosecuted?

Good question. And what if someone helps her by loaning her a car or money? Are they liable?

Kytro · 07-26-2006, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

A question I have that I didn't see anywhere is what about a 16 year old girl who drives herself? Is that still allowed or will she be prosecuted?

I don't think so, under that law.

7960 · 07-26-2006, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

Good question. And what if someone helps her by loaning her a car or money? Are they liable?

ooh, that's even better!

she says "can I borrow your car?" and I say "yes."
she drives to another state (4 miles away from my house) and gets an abortion
she comes back, gets emotional, tells her parents
parents tell the police to arrest me for assisting her

it's not out of the realm of possibility...I'm not searching for it but I'll guess people have been arrested for providing the car for a robbery without knowing that's what it was for.

my guess........... this will get shot down on its first challenge

6SpeedTA95 · 07-26-2006, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

Exactly what are the downsides?

And I don't like the idea that because your three friends didn't fully consider what they were doing you think lawmakers should pass a law that affects everyone else. Maybe your 3 friends should have done more soul searching. I can think of two women who had abortions and, although they're not proud of it, they both know it was the best choice.
Disagree. Parents do not have a right to know and should not.

A question I have that I didn't see anywhere is what about a 16 year old girl who drives herself? Is that still allowed or will she be prosecuted?

I agree my three friends should have weighed their options harder. However, the deep emotional issues that came along with the abortion weren't mentioned before the abortion. Planned parenthood basically told them it was the best option and here's why. Not "here's why you should consider an abortion, here's why you shouldn't consider abortion".

How do parents not have a right to kknow whats going on with their children? If children are to be treated as adults what ripple affects is that going to have on society?

7960 · 07-26-2006, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

I agree my three friends should have weighed their options harder. However, the deep emotional issues that came along with the abortion weren't mentioned before the abortion. Planned parenthood basically told them it was the best option and here's why. Not "here's why you should consider an abortion, here's why you shouldn't consider abortion".

It's cold, but they have nobody to blame but themselves. They went, apparently either heard enough or heard what they wanted, and got it done. It's too bad that they can't now live with the decision they made, but since they didn't hear both sides they should have gotten up and found someone to tell them the other side (whatever that is). Sorry, I don't think those 3 friends' opinions should force a law on everyone else.

How do parents not have a right to kknow whats going on with their children? If children are to be treated as adults what ripple affects is that going to have on society?

When it come to your body and your health, many children are asked what they want, not what their parents want.

I was sent for a blood test when I was 17. He asked me to go to the exam room and talked with my mom for a few minutes then he came in. He told me he thought I had leukemia and the blood test would verify it (I didn't, thank god). He took the blood and said the results would take 2 days (this was in '86, I'm sure it's faster now).

On the ride home I didn't say much and I remember my mom was quiet. That night I asked her a question about it and she flipped out. I assumed he told her.... he hadn't. I asked him at the follow-up why he didn't and he said he *couldn't* without my permission. I think he should have told me he didn't tell her, but other than that, I fully agree with this way of doing things.

6SpeedTA95 · 07-26-2006, 11:05 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

It's cold, but they have nobody to blame but themselves. They went, apparently either heard enough or heard what they wanted, and got it done. It's too bad that they can't now live with the decision they made, but since they didn't hear both sides they should have gotten up and found someone to tell them the other side (whatever that is). Sorry, I don't think those 3 friends' opinions should force a law on everyone else.

When it come to your body and your health, many children are asked what they want, not what their parents want.

I was sent for a blood test when I was 17. He asked me to go to the exam room and talked with my mom for a few minutes then he came in. He told me he thought I had leukemia and the blood test would verify it (I didn't, thank god). He took the blood and said the results would take 2 days (this was in '86, I'm sure it's faster now).

On the ride home I didn't say much and I remember my mom was quiet. That night I asked her a question about it and she flipped out. I assumed he told her.... he hadn't. I asked him at the follow-up why he didn't and he said he *couldn't* without my permission. I think he should have told me he didn't tell her, but other than that, I fully agree with this way of doing things.

So if children are adults in the eyes of the law then should we get rid of child labor laws? Should we get rid of school requirements? Afterall they should be free to make their own choices right?

Dumpy Dooby · 07-26-2006, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

So if children are adults in the eyes of the law then should we get rid of child labor laws? Should we get rid of school requirements? Afterall they should be free to make their own choices right?

I am 100% against the "adult crime, adult time" laws. I think that's entirely unreasonable and incompassionate.

Back on topic... I don't believe in throwing women in jail for getting abortions. I do not believe in criminalizing it at all. Much like in prostitution, women will be victimized more often if they need to seek illegal means to get an abortion (or in the case of prostitution, replace "an abortion" with "some money"). If a girl goes to get an abortion illegally, and the doctor decides to play a little bit of grab-ass with her and does his thing, who is she going to tell? The police? Does she say, "I was getting an illegal abortion done and then he raped me."?

I don't believe in criminalizing something that is so subject to moral questioning.

motivez · 07-26-2006, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

So if children are adults in the eyes of the law then should we get rid of child labor laws? Should we get rid of school requirements? Afterall they should be free to make their own choices right?

They can work at 16, 17, 15, etc.

The problem is that age is so arbitrary. A girl who's 11 or 12 is different in my mind than a girl who's 15 or 16 or 17.

6SpeedTA95 · 07-26-2006, 11:20 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

They can work at 16, 17, 15, etc.

The problem is that age is so arbitrary. A girl who's 11 or 12 is different in my mind than a girl who's 15 or 16 or 17.

They can work and no more than 20hrs a week and they're required to be in school...are we going to toss all that because "they should be in charge of themselves"? I dont think so.

Who's wants to criminalize women? Did I miss something in this thread?

motivez · 07-26-2006, 11:22 PM

criminalize women? What?

Like I said earlier in the thread, any parent who has done their job will IMO be told by their child so that there is discussion beforehand. If a child is too scared to discuss something as important as this with their parents it's the parents own fault for not being open and letting them know that no matter what, they can always bring stuff to them.

6SpeedTA95 · 07-26-2006, 11:25 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

criminalize women? What?

Like I said earlier in the thread, any parent who has done their job will IMO be told by their child so that there is discussion beforehand. If a child is too scared to discuss something as important as this with their parents it's the parents own fault for not being open and letting them know that no matter what, they can always bring stuff to them.

see dumpy dooby...

motivez you do have an excellent point about parents having done their job in the past, something I hadn't exactly thought about...

7960 · 07-26-2006, 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

So if children are adults in the eyes of the law then should we get rid of child labor laws? Should we get rid of school requirements? Afterall they should be free to make their own choices right?

children are not adults in the eyes of the law

children have control of their medical (including reproductive) decisions, and they have the same right to privacy as anyone else. A 14 year old girl would have to give permission for her doc to tell her parents what's going on with her, including if she's pregnant, has an STD, is taking any meds, etc.