Bush's Third Term = Obama???

[kinggovernor]

Bush's Third Term
July 2, 2008; Page A12

We're beginning to understand why Barack Obama keeps protesting so vigorously against the prospect of "George Bush's third term." Maybe he's worried that someone will notice that he's the candidate who's running for it.

Most Presidential candidates adapt their message after they win their party nomination, but Mr. Obama isn't merely "running to the center." He's fleeing from many of his primary positions so markedly and so rapidly that he's embracing a sizable chunk of President Bush's policy. Who would have thought that a Democrat would rehabilitate the much-maligned Bush agenda?
[Bush's Third Term]
Getty Images

Take the surveillance of foreign terrorists. Last October, while running with the Democratic pack, the Illinois Senator vowed to "support a filibuster of any bill that includes retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies" that assisted in such eavesdropping after 9/11. As recently as February, still running as the liberal favorite against Hillary Clinton, he was one of 29 Democrats who voted against allowing a bipartisan Senate Intelligence Committee reform of surveillance rules even to come to the floor.

Two weeks ago, however, the House passed a bill that is essentially the same as that Senate version, and Mr. Obama now says he supports it. Apparently legal immunity for the telcos is vital for U.S. national security, just as Mr. Bush has claimed. Apparently, too, the legislation isn't an attempt by Dick Cheney to gut the Constitution. Perhaps it is dawning on Mr. Obama that, if he does become President, he'll be responsible for preventing any new terrorist attack. So now he's happy to throw the New York Times under the bus.

Next up for Mr. Obama's political blessing will be Mr. Bush's Iraq policy. Only weeks ago, the Democrat was calling for an immediate and rapid U.S. withdrawal. When General David Petraeus first testified about the surge in September 2007, Mr. Obama was dismissive and skeptical. But with the surge having worked wonders in Iraq, this week Mr. Obama went out of his way to defend General Petraeus against MoveOn.org's attacks in 2007 that he was "General Betray Us." Perhaps he had a late epiphany.

Look for Mr. Obama to use his forthcoming visit to Iraq as an excuse to drop those withdrawal plans faster than he can say Jeremiah Wright "was not the person that I met 20 years ago." The Senator will learn – as John McCain has been saying – that withdrawal would squander the gains from the surge, set back Iraqi political progress, and weaken America's strategic position against Iran. Our guess is that he'll spin this switcheroo as some kind of conditional commitment, saying he'll stay in Iraq as long as Iraqis are making progress on political reconciliation, and so on. As things improve in Iraq, this would be Mr. Bush's policy too.

Mr. Obama has also made ostentatious leaps toward Mr. Bush on domestic issues. While he once bid for labor support by pledging a unilateral rewrite of Nafta, the Democrat now says he favors free trade as long as it works for "everybody." His economic aide, Austan Goolsbee, has been liberated from the five-month purdah he endured for telling Canadians that Mr. Obama's protectionism was merely campaign rhetoric. Now that Mr. Obama is in a general election, he can't scare the business community too much.

Back in the day, the first-term Senator also voted against the Supreme Court nominations of John Roberts and Samuel Alito. But last week he agreed with their majority opinion in the Heller gun rights case, and with their dissent against the liberal majority's ruling to ban the death penalty for rape. Mr. Obama seems to appreciate that getting pegged as a cultural lefty is deadly for national Democrats – at least until November.

This week the great Democratic hope even endorsed spending more money on faith-based charities. Apparently, this core plank of Mr. Bush's "compassionate conservatism" is not the assault on church-state separation that the ACLU and liberals have long claimed. And yesterday, Mr. Obama's campaign unveiled an ad asserting his support for welfare reform that "slashed the rolls by 80 percent." Never mind that Mr. Obama has declared multiple times that he opposed the landmark 1996 welfare reform.
* * *

All of which prompts a couple of thoughts. The first is that Mr. Obama doesn't seem to think American political sentiment has moved as far left as most of the media claim. Another is that the next President, whether Democrat or Republican, is going to embrace much of Mr. Bush's foreign and antiterror policy whether he admits it or not. Think Eisenhower endorsing Truman's Cold War architecture.

Most important is the matter of Mr. Obama's political character – and how honest he is being about what he truly believes. His voting record in the Senate and in Illinois, as well as his primary positions, would make him the most liberal Presidential candidate since George McGovern in 1972. But he clearly doesn't want voters to believe that in November. He's still the Obama Americans don't know.

Bush's Third Term - WSJ.com

I don't see how this represents Obama's "Hope and Change" message. I think this will leave independents asking exactly what does Obama stand for.

[Scrum]

From the most liberal senator a few weeks ago, to someone that will be Bush's third term.

Quite an accomplishment.

[SoFlaJDM]

the right will say ANYTHING to get a couple of votes

[Charles Martel]

Originally Posted by Scrum

From the most liberal senator a few weeks ago, to someone that will be Bush's third term.

Quite an accomplishment.

Faith based initiatives, telcom immunity, agreeing with the DC gun ruling from two justices he voted against, flip flopping on Iraq every other day, and let's not ever forget disengaging from the man he couldn't disassociate himself from....why....it would have been like disassociating himself from his Grandmother or race. Indeed quite an accomplishment that hardly needs explanation from we critics. Obama is rocketing to the center and in some avenues, to the far right.

Fool us once, shame on you. Fool us twice.....

This is a flip flop candidacy from a clearly confused candidate....imo.

[TankRizzo]

Originally Posted by SoFlaJDM

the right will say ANYTHING to get a couple of votes

That's rich considering the stances Obama has had the past month

[SoFlaJDM]

Originally Posted by TankRizzo

That's rich considering the stances Obama has had the past month

you wanna play that game? post up all of obama's supposed flip flops, and i'll do the same with mccain... wanna bet on who's got more flip flops?

and i'm willing to bet obama's list is made primarily of fabrications

[Charles Martel]

Originally Posted by SoFlaJDM

you wanna play that game? post up all of obama's supposed flip flops, and i'll do the same with mccain... wanna bet on who's got more flip flops?

and i'm willing to bet obama's list is made primarily of fabrications

Supposed flip flops?

This guy flops around like a fish out of water. He makes Kerry look solid. I do note however, one is always ready to compare someone else. I don't really see anyone crowning McCain as a solid rock and yet, as soon as Obama is asked to define his spineless flop flipping, supporters want to talk about someone else. Like someone going 75 in a 55....."officer...why did you stop me, everyone else was speeding too."

Obama...supposedly the agent of change and hope...flailing around like he just got buckshot torpedoed up his wazoo. He isn't qualified to carry water for the current President, much less take his place. Please.

[SoFlaJDM]

Originally Posted by Charles Martel

I don't really see anyone crowning McCain as a solid rock and yet,

you've never heard of the "maverick straight talker"?


i'm waiting for actual, legitimate examples and not character assassinations... i doubt i'll get any though

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by SoFlaJDM

you've never heard of the "maverick straight talker"?


i'm waiting for actual, legitimate examples and not character assassinations... i doubt i'll get any though

if you want evidence of Obama changing his position, look at his position on Iraq.

I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, you guys all wanted someone who was willing to change their position (not stay the course like Bush)

[Charles Martel]

Originally Posted by SoFlaJDM

you've never heard of the "maverick straight talker"?


i'm waiting for actual, legitimate examples and not character assassinations... i doubt i'll get any though

Excuse me. I just gave you four.

He told you he couldn't disassociate with his Pastor, Mentor, and Official at his wedding. He couldn't disassociate with this man as he couldn't his own Grandmother or ethnicity. Days later...flip flop and I can no longer associate myself with this man.

You cannot agree that is a flip flop and a weak-kneed one at that?

Secondly, the article starting this forum was from an editorial from the Wall Street Journal just last Wednesday. It mentions several colossal flip flops the latest on Iraq. Obama hasn't even BEEN to Iraq post-surge, he's sat while Petraeus testified asking political questions. He's stated this war was wrong and we need to pull troops out. He's now saying he'll adjust or refine his statements as he slowly comes to figure out what is going on.

Flip flop Obama, anyone could have seen it coming.

Btw, I've not heard of the "maverick straight talker" no. I'm not claiming McCain is rock solid, I personally believe he waffles as well. My point concerned Obama...and I find it odd his supporters will IMMEDIATELY divert to McCain when Obama's flop flipping is mentioned. It's all a deflection, this Barack is as solid as a bowel movement after a night of heavy drinking. Whats more. had their primary been a UFC cage fight....Hillary would have torn him in half and sold the remanents to his white Grandmother unless she's been..as well....disassociated by Candidate Flip Flop.

[SoFlaJDM]

Originally Posted by Charles Martel

Supposed flip flops?

This guy flops around like a fish out of water. He makes Kerry look solid. I do note however, one is always ready to compare someone else. I don't really see anyone crowning McCain as a solid rock and yet, as soon as Obama is asked to define his spineless flop flipping, supporters want to talk about someone else. Like someone going 75 in a 55....."officer...why did you stop me, everyone else was speeding too."

Obama...supposedly the agent of change and hope...flailing around like he just got buckshot torpedoed up his wazoo. He isn't qualified to carry water for the current President, much less take his place. Please.

nope just checked again... no examples here

[Charles Martel]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing,

I think our troops deserve much better, so, I'll disagree. Flip flopping on Iraq..when you haven't been in years....when you clearly don't have the slightest clue as to events on the ground...is irresponsible, imo.

[Charles Martel]

Originally Posted by SoFlaJDM

nope just checked again... no examples here

No...check yet again. Tampa Bay is in first place.

Denial ain't no river in Egypt.

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by Charles Martel

I think our troops deserve much better, so, I'll disagree. Flip flopping on Iraq..when you haven't been in years....when you clearly don't have the slightest clue as to events on the ground...is irresponsible, imo.

You can say Bush Flip Flopped on Iraq, its ok to change strategy if something isn't working.

The reason, Obama changed his potential strategy is because the current strategy "the surge", is working.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

The reason, Obama changed his potential strategy is because the current strategy "the surge", is working.

Really? Did you happen to read the GAO report?

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by Scrum

Really? Did you happen to read the GAO report?

The progress made one?

[TankRizzo]

Originally Posted by SoFlaJDM

you wanna play that game? post up all of obama's supposed flip flops, and i'll do the same with mccain... wanna bet on who's got more flip flops?

and i'm willing to bet obama's list is made primarily of fabrications

At least McCain is flopping in the general direction of his party. Obama has been flailing and pissing away the foundation that he built this campaign on.

"I can no more disown Wright than I can disown the black community"
Campaign finance
Iran
troop withdrawal from Iraq
etc.



But he's the golden child...let's all turn a blind eye because he gives one hell of a speech!

[motivez]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

You can say Bush Flip Flopped on Iraq, its ok to change strategy if something isn't working.

The reason, Obama changed his potential strategy is because the current strategy "the surge", is working.

Once again, the surge has accomplished little, the cease fire between the two major militant groups responsible for a significant portion of the violence has been almost entirely responsible for the decline in violence, and most of the rest of it has been due to the "Anbar Awakening"

And we shouldn't pretend like violence is at an acceptable level there, it's still horrible with far too many Iraqi's dying every day

[motivez]

Originally Posted by TankRizzo

At least McCain is flopping in the general direction of his party. Obama has been flailing and pissing away the foundation that he built this campaign on.

"I can no more disown Wright than I can disown the black community"
Campaign finance
Iran
troop withdrawal from Iraq
etc.

But he's the golden child...let's all turn a blind eye because he gives one hell of a speech!

Where has he changed positions on withdrawal from Iraq? I saw some bit Fox news was doing trying to say he changed his position on the same day, but apparently a nuanced explanation was a little too hard for them to comprehend, because the position was pretty much the same, he simply emphasized that he'd be coordinating his moves with the commanders on the ground when talking to the military times

And Iran? Link?

Campaign finance is one you have him on, but no one cares about it really, his explanation that McCain wasn't willing to enter into an agreement with him is true, and McCain has no willingness or desire to control the 527's, whereas at the Obama camp's request, MoveOn has shut down their 527 group

And Wight too, but give me a break. Wright brought it on himself through his outrageous displays at the speaking events he attended. No politician is going to continue to associate themselves with people who go out and try to cause trouble