McCain's view on Patriotism smells like the old USSR.

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by C4Casey

It's called reading. You should try it.

I read alot, thank you very much. We in the military tend to actually read more than the average joe. And from personal experience, I knowthat plenty of my friends, as well as myself, joined because we love our country. Yes, there are plenty of people who join up for career advancement, it's just that I sort of sensed some negativity towards the military as a profession from your previous post. Sorry if I got the wrong idea.

I have nothing against the military as a profession. I think it's an honorable thing to do. I was just making an observation about the reasons for which people join up. Alot of people want to do something meaningful and rewarding with thier lives and the military is thier best option. There is nothing wrong with that at all. I don't, however, think you will find many people who perhaps could have worked as an investment banker making 100,000 a year deciding that they would rather earn 35 and join the military out of a sense of duty to thier country. Yeah I am sure there are some, but you could probably count thier ranks on one hand. I think you will find more people who were chosing between a crummy non-rewarding job that pays 35 a year and military service that pays 35+ a year.



* I have no idea what the military pays. I used 35 because it seemed reasonable.

[DosEquis]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

I have nothing against the military as a profession. I think it's an honorable thing to do. I was just making an observation about the reasons for which people join up. Alot of people want to do something meaningful and rewarding with thier lives and the military is thier best option. There is nothing wrong with that at all. I don't, however, think you will find many people who perhaps could have worked as an investment banker making 100,000 a year deciding that they would rather earn 35 and join the military out of a sense of duty to thier country. Yeah I am sure there are some, but you could probably count thier ranks on one hand. I think you will find more people who were chosing between a crummy non-rewarding job that pays 35 a year and military service that pays 35+ a year.



* I have no idea what the military pays. I used 35 because it seemed reasonable.

I think you will find a lot of people would rather make 35k being a stock room manager at Lowe's than joining up out of a sense of duty to their country. At least in todays scenerio.

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by DosEquis

I think you will find a lot of people would rather make 35k being a stock room manager at Lowe's than joining up out of a sense of duty to their country.

It probably depends on alot of things. It was just an example. My point is really that people choose the military because they don't have any other better option.

[kombayn]

Originally Posted by TankRizzo

I see no problems with what he said. It doesn't infer the current government but more the ideals the country is based on.

Umm... Do you even realize what you just said? Our country was founded on free-markets, limited government, private property, personal civil liberties & equal rights. So no you don't put country before anything, you put yourself before anything. That's what the Founding Fathers wrote.

[Joe Castro]

"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it" - George Bernard Shaw

Patriotism is one of the most wicked things imaginable. It is divisive and results in the valuation of one set of people above another. It has similar effects to racism. Putting your fellow nationals above others is just as idiotic as putting your own race above others.

[thewise1]

Originally Posted by Joe Castro

"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it" - George Bernard Shaw

Patriotism is one of the most wicked things imaginable. It is divisive and results in the valuation of one set of people above another. It has similar effects to racism. Putting your fellow nationals above others is just as idiotic as putting your own race above others.

Wholeheartedly disagree

[Dispatcher]

Originally Posted by DosEquis

If joining the military today was indeed to defend this country, I'd consider joining. Today the military is a policy enforcement tool and is not defending the country directly. I will not sign up and potentially sacrifice my life for policy, especially in countries that are no threat to the United States.

In other words, let me know when the Iranian navy is about half way across the atlantic without running out of gas, or if they have an airplane that can even get here, or a missile that can go more than 1,200 miles.

That being said a lot of soldiers join for personal gain. It is the reason why they need to increase enlistment bonuses, pay, and benefits to get people to join.

On the republican views of patriotism, especially the extremist wing of the right wing, you question policy you obviously hate america. Herman Goering had a quote that describes their view to near perfection.

Excellent post.

[Rouger2]

Selfishness does not make for a good army. The private sector and the military have different motivations.

[SICKGUY]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

Parade Magazine on Yahoo! News



His view of patriotism sounds kinda statist. Someting I might expect an old Soviet leader to say. Individual wants, dreams, desires.. all unimportant. The state is supreme above all.

I don't think that is the way he intended his speech to sound, but it does sound that way. To me at least.

im not sure if it was a national ad, but i saw a funny john mccain commercial the other night. it was a propaganda'ish advertisement. trying to force the idea that his military experience and vietnam heroics somehow make him a capable leader. what exactly do you lead in a p.o.w. prison for 5 years? probably not much. anyway, what sort of message is he really feeding us. is he saying that being in the navy in the 60's means he understands how to fight a new kind of war, the sort of war that never going to go away? how exactly does a military background help out when the next president is going to inherit a crashing economy, soaring energy prices, buku inflation, and a deteriorating infrastructure? how can a guy in his 70's be the sort of forward thinker the country needs to dig us out of the hole were in? the united states has lost its way, and four more years of backwards thinking will be the end of us.

there is an entire generation entering the workforce, and for the first time in history there are 3 generations of people working together. i think that opens up so much potential for this country. young people learning from fellow employees that have 20+ years in any given industry. relearning old ideas and improving upon them. thats how we advance as a country. with energy prices rocketing and technology advancing, its hard to see how there is not a major shift in the way we live coming soon. if $5 a gallon for gas is what this country needs to finally exit this holding pattern we have been in and really take off, then im ok with that.

the next president of the united states better be a big thinker. i grew up in the 80's...i dont know about the rest of you guys (girls), but patriotism was force fed to us in the 80's. we pledged our allegiance every morning. we new america was better than russia, and everyone else. now, i dont know about the reality of the world at the time, but as a kid...this shit worked on me. i am a total proud american. i hate seeing our country this way. i hate that we have lost the respect of the world. i hate that our status as a "world leader" has been so tarnished, saudi arabia can tell our president "no" to a request, and he has no ability to do anything about it. people are so divided over ideas and opinions these days.

if it the destruction of america is a terrorists ultimate goal...i think they are getting it. sad.

ok, im all over here....back on track.


going back to this commercial...what does pointing out a strong military background really say to americans? i think it says that john mccain expects to be at war for a long time, and that he also thinks he is the man with a plan to make america "safe". i also think it hints very strongly at the idea of..."how is barrack obama gonna PROTECT you?? john mccain has seen seen war, he knows its hell, and he knows how to defend YOU as we move further towards a war ravaged future!"

obviously its not that blatant, but thats what its really about. more fear. more propaganda, more bullshit.