UK: Muslims outraged over dog in advert

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Muslim outrage at police advert featuring cute puppy sitting in policeman's hat | Mail Online

A postcard featuring a cute puppy sitting in a policeman's hat advertising a Scottish police force's new telephone number has sparked outrage from Muslims.

Tayside Police's new non-emergency phone number has prompted complaints from members of the Islamic community.

The choice of image on the Tayside Police cards - a black dog sitting in a police officer's hat - has now been raised with Chief Constable John Vine.

The advert has upset Muslims because dogs are considered ritually unclean and has sparked such anger that some shopkeepers in Dundee have refused to display the advert.

Dundee councillor Mohammed Asif said: 'My concern was that it's not welcomed by all communities, with the dog on the cards.

'It was probably a waste of resources going to these communities.

'They (the police) should have understood. Since then, the police have explained that it was an oversight on their part, and that if they'd seen it was going to cause upset they wouldn't have done it.'

Councillor Asif, who is a member of the Tayside Joint Police Board, said that the force had a diversity adviser and was generally very aware of such issues.

He raised the matter with Mr Vine at a meeting of the board.
The chief constable said he was unaware of the concerns and that the force had not sought to cause any upset but added he would look into the matter.

Councillor Asif said: 'People who have shops just won't put up the postcard. But the police have said to me that it was simply an oversight and they did not seek to offend or upset.'

Cards featuring police dog-in-training Rebel have been distributed to communities throughout the area to advertise the single number point of contact for non-emergency calls to the police.

Rebel has proved a popular recruit for Tayside Police after coming through the very first Lothian and Borders Police dog-breeding programme in February.

One of seven German Shepherd pups born in early December, he has now completed his course of inoculations, and is free to venture out onto the streets of Tayside.

A spokesman for Tayside Police said: 'Trainee police dog Rebel has proved extremely popular with children and adults since being introduced to the public, aged six weeks old, as Tayside Police's newest canine recruit.

'His incredible world-wide popularity - he has attracted record visitor numbers to our website - led us to believe Rebel could play a starring role in the promotion of our non-emergency number.

'We did not seek advice from the force's diversity adviser prior to publishing and distributing the postcards. That was an oversight and we apologise for any offence caused.'

Oh my Allah, it's a police dog!!!

[Nordmann]

I feel a riot coming...

[Viv]

As if introducing Sharia Law wasn't enough.

My friend lives in Manchester and was hospitalised due to miscarriage. She could not see an English-speaking doctor until the next morning as none were on duty. The woman in the next bed had several doctors speak to her, all of them in her own language. She was Muslim.

On leaving the hospital, my friend was handed an after-care advice information leaflet. English was on the last page. The previous pages were in ethnic languages.

Manchester in England.

There are issues there, she tells me racism is a problem...

[avsp]

The doctors DIDNT speak english?
I find that very hard to believe, ..., in fact I dont believe it at all.

& even if true then its hardly the fault of the doctors who were on duty Surely its the 'lazy' ways of english speaking doctors for not being willing to work at night.

As for the dogs fingy, ..., doubtless there were some who sought to make it an issue, but they're surely just the 'usual suspects' & firebrands who shouldnt be given the time of day by the likes of Councillor Asif, ..., tho perhaps its he who like to see his name in the paper

None of the muslims I know, (& i know dozens) would be worried in the slightest by a picture of a dog landing on the doormat. Many are perfectly happy to share a sofa with a dog. Equally there are some who take care not to get dog saliva on their belongings because it is 'unclean', a view not disasimilar to my own & I'm agnostic-ish

& BTW there is no question at all of introducing Sharia law, ..., the talk is of formally recognising the civil mediations that Muslims have entered into willingly, ..., just as Beth Din 'courts' are similarly recognised

I question the motives of all the ppl 'getting all hot & bothered & jumping up & down' about this, be they the Daily Mail, Asif or posters in this thread

[Dylith]

Originally Posted by Schrödinger's Cat

Muslim outrage at police advert featuring cute puppy sitting in policeman's hat | Mail Online



Oh my Allah, it's a police dog!!!

Just because dogs are man's best friend here in the west doesn't mean that they are loved everywhere.

And as far as I can tell, the article overstates the response. Some Muslims refused to put up a flier that depicts an unclean animal and this turns into "mass outrage among the Muslim community."

I wouldn't expect orthodox Jews to have pictures of pigs everywhere, and I don't expect conservative Muslims to have pictures of dogs either.

[Dylith]

Originally Posted by Viv

As if introducing Sharia Law wasn't enough.

The main calls were for local Sharia law and only for civil cases, not criminal ones. A type of freedom that Orthodox Jews have been given in parts of the UK, and here in the US as well.

[Dylith]

Originally Posted by Viv

My friend lives in Manchester and was hospitalised due to miscarriage. She could not see an English-speaking doctor until the next morning as none were on duty. The woman in the next bed had several doctors speak to her, all of them in her own language. She was Muslim.

On leaving the hospital, my friend was handed an after-care advice information leaflet. English was on the last page. The previous pages were in ethnic languages.

Manchester in England.

There are issues there, she tells me racism is a problem...

Is she Pakistani by any chance?

[JaJae]

Others may have a better perspective, but I've been reading a lot about stuff like this in the UK. They're bending over backwards to be as PC as possible towards Muslims due to the current political climate.

Schoolboys punished with detention for refusing to kneel down and pray to Allah | Mail Online

Two schoolboys were given detention after refusing to kneel down and 'pray to Allah' during a religious education lesson.

Some of it just gets taken too far.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

It is the liberal PC crowd that are actually the bad guys. If you give the Muslims a foot, they'll take a yard. They, of course, search for things to offend them, because they know how to play the game. Their goal is to change their new country to adjust to their culture and beliefs.

Originally Posted by Dylith

Just because dogs are man's best friend here in the west doesn't mean that they are loved everywhere.

This is in the west. There's no rational reason to get upset about a picture with a police dog on it. No one is suggesting to change their culture, but to complain about a culture where you freely immigrate to is completely nutty. However, I believe that they aren't genuine in their objections. They know exactly what they are doing.

[Dylith]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Others may have a better perspective, but I've been reading a lot about stuff like this in the UK. They're bending over backwards to be as PC as possible towards Muslims due to the current political climate.

Schoolboys punished with detention for refusing to kneel down and pray to Allah | Mail Online

Some of it just gets taken too far.

I agree that some things go too far, but I don't think that the OP is an example of it.

Plus we have to understand the high level of anti-Islamic sentiment that does exist in the UK. Muslims, especially Pakistanis face a great deal of racism (the same is true in other European countries such as France), so while first generation immigrants may be more willing to adapt themselves, their children have polarized against a society that rejects them.

The current political climate is one of trying to find ways for these immigrants to be better integrated into the country.

Notice how despite rising levels of Muslim immigration into the United States ever since 9/11 how we have had little to no problem with our Muslim immigrants even with certain islamophobic issues.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Dylith

I agree that some things go too far, but I don't think that the OP is an example of it.

Plus we have to understand the high level of anti-Islamic sentiment that does exist in the UK. Muslims, especially Pakistanis face a great deal of racism (the same is true in other European countries such as France), so while first generation immigrants may be more willing to adapt themselves, their children have polarized against a society that rejects them.

The type of responses we're seeing from Muslims in countries such as in France is only making matters worse. I understand they've had some hard times, but radical responses only make the situation worse.

The current political climate is one of trying to find ways for these immigrants to be better integrated into the country.

Notice how despite rising levels of Muslim immigration into the United States ever since 9/11 how we have had little to no problem with our Muslim immigrants even with certain islamophobic issues.

We've had minor issues here and there. We've had the flying Imam publicity stunt among other CAIR issues. But by and large we're not as susceptible as Europe. We're getting there, but we aren't as appeasing just yet.

[Dylith]

Originally Posted by Schrödinger's Cat

It is the liberal PC crowd that are actually the bad guys. If you give the Muslims a foot, they'll take a yard. They, of course, search for things to offend them, because they know how to play the game. Their goal is to change their new country to adjust to their culture and beliefs.

That's quite a stereotype. Just because many people in the west have become comfortable with the bastardization of their religion and religious values doesn't mean that such behavior should be expected from all who practice a religion.

This is in the west.

And let us not forget how the West colonized the east and recruited Muslim workers to fill their labor shortage.

There's no rational reason to get upset about a picture with a police dog on it.

No, there is a religious reason. They see the dog as an unclean animal and so they didn't want a picture of it up in their shop. I can assure you that such behavior is not limited to Muslims.

[Dylith]

Originally Posted by JaJae

The type of responses we're seeing from Muslims in countries such as in France is only making matters worse. I understand they've had some hard times, but radical responses only make the situation worse.

Did you know that Muslims were drafted by the French to fight as far back as WWI. It was the European powers who took control of these people, used these people and opened their borders.

They have been treated poorly by the locals for over a hundred years. Things like the Paris riots are inevidable in a society that rejects them so utterly. Did you know of the work legislation in France that would have made it against the law to discriminate against Muslims and would make it easier for Muslims to find minimum wage jobs? Does anyone know what happened to this legislation? It was disgarded, voted down by the french people.

Public opinion polls show high levels of racism within these countries. The immigrants live in poverty throughout much of the country and have a very hard time finding work. For the average French citizen who is changing jobs it may take an entire year to find new work, but for Muslims it usually takes much longer. It is no coincidence that pretty much all of the illegal street vendors you will find in these countries are minorities.

We've had minor issues here and there. We've had the flying Imam publicity stunt among other CAIR issues. But by and large we're not as susceptible as Europe. We're getting there, but we aren't as appeasing just yet.

The difference is that we have a much more open society and are more accomidating that European countries tend to be. Pakistanis in the UK are one of the worse off immigrant groups. In the US they are one of the best, right up there with Indian immigrants.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Originally Posted by Dylith

That's quite a stereotype. Just because many people in the west have become comfortable with the bastardization of their religion and religious values doesn't mean that such behavior should be expected from all who practice a religion.

So all must conform to fit with every minority's view of what is acceptable according to whatever religion they may happen to come from? No, you're right, Muslims don't like to douse their religion in the face of Western secular and liberal ideals. They will be ever the more fanatical for others to change while they remain faithful. In this way, the immigrants make their new country assimilate to them.

And let us not forget how the West colonized the east and recruited Muslim workers to fill their labor shortage.

This really has no baring on whether or not the West should be made to change cultural or moral precepts because of outside influence.

No, there is a religious reason. They see the dog as an unclean animal and so they didn't want a picture of it up in their shop. I can assure you that such behavior is not limited to Muslims.

Religion is completely the cause, and you see Muslims in Europe doing much to destroy free speech and other secular, western ideals. There's no other group that is more vocal or violent. They are completely justified to do so in their own culture and religion.

[Dylith]

Originally Posted by Schrödinger's Cat

So all must conform to fit with every minority's view of what is acceptable according to whatever religion they may happen to come from? No, you're right, Muslims don't like to douse their religion in the face of Western secular and liberal ideals. They will be ever the more fanatical for others to change while they remain faithful. In this way, the immigrants make their new country assimilate to them.

No, I think that the secularization of Islam is inevidable. You just can't expect it to happen overnight or even over a couple decades, especially if you push secularism so hard onto them. You create conservative backlash movements as a results. Backlash movements like we are seeing now. This issue is hardly new, it has been going on for around 100 years now.

Besides, I don't see you complaining about the legal allowances given to the Orthodox Jews in both the UK and the US, or how about the Amish?

Religion is completely the cause, and you see Muslims in Europe doing much to destroy free speech and other secular, western ideals. There's no other group that is more vocal or violent. They are completely justified to do so in their own culture and religion.

Islam forbids murder, even the murder of non-Muslims. I guess you have also missed things like the full page ads taken out in UK newspapers by the UK Muslim community condemning such radical behavior.

Or perhaps you have missed the Fatwas from the most senior of Imams in both Sunni and Shia Islamic thought condemning such radicalism as well.

There is a lot of justification for western dislike among Arab and Islamic nations, It wasn't too long ago that they were forced to live under western rule and manipulation.

A worldwide poll of Muslims from about 40 or so countries showed that Muslims admire our political and economic freedoms as well as our social liberties the most. What they dislike the most about the west is the level of racism and anti-Islamism that they face. They also very much so dislike the way that Islam is portrayed by the west and by people like you.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Originally Posted by Dylith

No, I think that the secularization of Islam is inevidable. You just can't expect it to happen overnight or even over a couple decades, especially if you push secularism so hard onto them. You create conservative backlash movements as a results. Backlash movements like we are seeing now. This issue is hardly new, it has been going on for around 100 years now.

Secularization of Islam won't happen, just like Christianity won't be secularized. The societies become secular by distancing themselves from religion; a secular Islam would be Islam without religion, which doesn't make sense. No doubt that Muslims will become more benign in their beliefs, as Christians and Jews have become over the years (with varying degrees of success). To even concede that they should become moderate is to say that they should increasing believe less in their religion, as there is something wrong with it. However, for now, I agree with Ayaan Hirsi Ali (a woman with many death threats against her) when she says that moderate Islam is an oxymoron.

Besides, I don't see you complaining about the legal allowances given to the Orthodox Jews in both the UK and the US, or how about the Amish?

I do, but you wouldn't know, for I haven't spoken on those topics here. I would be glad to do so, just in another thread. My disapproval of religion in society isn't limited to Islam.

Islam forbids murder, even the murder of non-Muslims. I guess you have also missed things like the full page ads taken out in UK newspapers by the UK Muslim community condemning such radical behavior.

They are much like the other faiths that say their religion is peaceful, yet any look through their holy books would say otherwise. The people who are calling for the deaths of infidels or people that "insult" their religion are not a minority, and they actually believe in the books that they hold absolutely true. Why is this any surprise to liberals and secularists in the West?

On another point, "murder" is a curious word to use, as it is by definition a killing which is seen as wrong or illegal. What about the various justified killings that spelled out in the Koran or Hadith? Many of these passages are of course being used for justification in killings of various people.

Ken Miller, a catholic and biologist, would say that Christianity is compatible with Evolution. His opinions, however, are watered-down Christianity that has embraced scientific and secular principles in America. The Evangelical majority wouldn't agree with him, however, and that is well documented. Likewise, a specific call by a certain "Mulsim community" will fall on deaf ears to those which have not undergone the same de-Islamification, and who, in fact, resent it.

Or perhaps you have missed the Fatwas from the most senior of Imams in both Sunni and Shia Islamic thought condemning such radicalism as well.

This type of argument works both ways and gets nowhere. Perhaps you missed the various people that are put to death for conversion from Islam, or the people that are killed or threatened with murder for speaking against Islam.

There is a lot of justification for western dislike among Arab and Islamic nations, It wasn't too long ago that they were forced to live under western rule and manipulation.

They dislike it so much they move to the nations? That makes as much sense as me hating dictatorships, but willfully moving to North Korea. They don't dislike the west for imperialism, but for religious reasons; indeed, they like Islamic Imperialism. And why not? Their faith is one that aspires to convert all non-believers.

A worldwide poll of Muslims from about 40 or so countries showed that Muslims admire our political and economic freedoms as well as our social liberties the most. What they dislike the most about the west is the level of racism and anti-Islamism that they face. They also very much so dislike the way that Islam is portrayed by the west and by people like you.

I am glad they dislike the fact that I rail against Islam (and indeed many other religions). That is free speech. That is a concept that even many don't seem to get, as most news papers refused to republish the Mohammed Cartoons out of fear. Now, many such cartoons are directed at Judaism and Christianity without death threats, riots, or paralizing fear from the media. The more you criticize religions, the better. The taboo against cristicism that is permitted to faith is completely unjustified. Everything should be opened to rational inquiry and criticism.

[thewise1]

If 'mass outrage' is the real deal, then I hope they all choke on a pretzel.

If this is just blowing the reaction of a few muslims out of proportion then I hope the writer chokes on a pretzel

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Originally Posted by thewise1

If 'mass outrage' is the real deal, then I hope they all choke on a pretzel.

If this is just blowing the reaction of a few muslims out of proportio