FISA Approved: How your liberties are being taken away.

[kombayn]

Senate bows to Bush, approves surveillance bill - Yahoo! News

WASHINGTON - Bowing to President Bush's demands, the Senate sent the White House a bill Wednesday overhauling bitterly disputed rules on secret government eavesdropping and shielding telecommunications companies from lawsuits complaining they helped the U.S. spy on Americans.


The relatively one-sided vote, 69-28, came only after a lengthy and heated debate that pitted privacy and civil liberties concerns against the desire to prevent terrorist attacks. It ended almost a year of wrangling over surveillance rules and the president's warrant less wiretapping program that was initiated after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

Barack Obama has officially shot himself in the head for voting this garbage bill. He's lost my vote 110% now, and he's a liar to boot. I can handle minor flip-flops and lies to pander but this is the biggest foul he's ever made.

It will not matter if McCain or Obama are in office, it'll all be in the name of "preventing terrorism" and now pairing this with their "homegrown terrorism" bill they passed a while back, it won't be long until one of those two makes sure they can outlaw guns and I guarantee now neither one of them will get rid of the new Presidential powers that George W. Bush has been created.

I'm just glad we still have journalists with integrity and politicians/law-makers who are still pro-Liberty and still follow our constitution. I've never been more angry in my life and the minute I start seeing the huge decline in murky waters of actual socialism/fascism, I'm out of here. For good. I will not look back and I will leave this country, we're one of the strongest nations on the planet and I don't want to be involved or forced into China Redux.

Thoughts? Questions? Anyone actually support this trash bill that is disguised as preventing terrorist attacks?

[lew]

Hope and CHANGE!!!!!!111111111!!!!

[lew]

Originally Posted by kombayn

I'm just glad we still have journalists with integrity and politicians/law-makers who are still pro-Liberty and still follow our constitution.

There's like 5 in the entire country.

[Ardentfrost]

I open The Floor and this is the first thread and the second is "Congressional Approval falls to single digits." The two threads might as well be merged

[Dylith]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

I open The Floor and this is the first thread and the second is "Congressional Approval falls to single digits." The two threads might as well be merged

No kidding, things like this really bother me. I know I may be considered a "socialist" by some but I still value our civil and political liberties, and this is certainly unacceptable.

[motivez]

Well, Obama has lost my fiscal support and I don't think I'll be campaigning for him either. I'll be putting my money and energy into Glenn Greenwald's PAC that seeks to hold the people responsible for this accountable

I sent a letter to his NC campaign people to let them know as much

[Scrum]

Obama has lost my financial support over this as well, but not my vote.
His vote against this bill would have done nothing but give the GOP more ammunition against him and he did vote for the amendments that would have stripped immunity from the bill.

I think i'm going to donate to Wesley Clark's PAC instead.

[motivez]

Actually, this vote gives the Republican more ammunition to call him a flip flopper and attack him as just another politician... and they'll be right.

I'm extremely disappointed.

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by Dylith

No kidding, things like this really bother me. I know I may be considered a "socialist" by some but I still value our civil and political liberties, and this is certainly unacceptable.

If you're an American liberal, you should be in favor of civil and political liberties. If you were a conservative, you'd favor economic liberties. If you were a libertarian, you'd favor both

[kombayn]

I'm voting 3rd Party Independent candidates this election. On every seat that is up for grabs. The two-parties are such a shame it's shocking. I want to puke that Congress passed this... They are weak, extremely weak.

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by kombayn

I'm voting 3rd Party Independent candidates this election. On every seat that is up for grabs. The two-parties are such a shame it's shocking. I want to puke that Congress passed this... They are weak, extremely weak.

Not that I'm campaigning for you to vote a certain way or anything, but if enough people vote for a single 3rd party (like, say, Libertarians ), the message is a lot more clear than a bunch of votes spread out among dozens of candidates.

[lew]

Originally Posted by motivez

Well, Obama has lost my fiscal support and I don't think I'll be campaigning for him either. I'll be putting my money and energy into Glenn Greenwald's PAC that seeks to hold the people responsible for this accountable

I sent a letter to his NC campaign people to let them know as much

Greenwald is awesome.

[Dispatcher]

Kinda makes Obama look like he hasn't any balls.

[motivez]

Here's a copy of the email I sent to the NC director of his campaign

Hi Marc,

One thing I can tell you about North Carolinians is that they care about their rights. I am one of those people.

I have several friends in Egypt and Israel and Lebanon. Senator Obama has just voted to allow the government to monitor my communications with those people without probable cause or judicial oversight, and has effectively justified President Bush's violation of the law and prevented people like me from holding the telecommunications companies who broke (and now will continue to break) the law and violate my 4th Amendment rights accountable in court.

As the presumptive nominee and leader of the Democratic party, it was his responsibility to lead on this issue, not capitulate to the Republican's desire to legalize their own lawbreaking. He had many opportunities to do the right thing, and end the end chose what he viewed as the politically expedient course of action, something he promised those of us who voted for him in the primary he would not do.

I'm absolutely stunned and deeply saddened at this flip flop by Obama. It served no purpose whatsoever, and will only provide the Republicans with ammo for calling him a flip flopper, and now they'll be right.

Unfortunately, his vote today means I will no longer donate to his campaign, nor will I spend my time volunteering for his campaign. Obama has become just another politician, willing to do anything and pander to anyone, including people who think the Constitution of the United States means nothing.

Instead, my time and money will be devoted to defeating those who voted to strip me of my rights through Glenn Greenwald's PAC.

Sincerely disappointed,
-

Not that it'll mean anything, but I felt like writing something to express my displeasure.

[kombayn]

^Oh, believe me. They'll read it, it'll get through. The internet outrage alone is a big media pick-up. People are not stupid when they do the research. A nice vocal majority in our internet world are creating a fuss that'll effect the politics in Washington, D.C. It's why they want to regulate the internet, so they can control the content being distributed. This shit won't last forever, once it hits the average American who doesn't pay attention to stuff like this... Shit will literally hit the fan.

[kinggovernor]

This makes me like Obama more

Telecommunication companies should be immune from lawsuits

I wish McCain would not of skipped the vote, even though it was approved.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

This makes me like Obama more

Telecommunication companies should be immune from lawsuits

I wish McCain would not of skipped the vote, even though it was approved.

Wow, so you think those who violate the law should be immune to prosecution and lawsuits if they incorporate themselves?

Very disappointing position to take. I'm sorry you hate our freedom and the Constitution so much.. why live here if you think the freedoms so many have fought and died to protect are meaningless? There's other, more authoritarian countries out there that will give you what you're advocating here.

I hate to pull a but it's relevant.

As Greenwald puts it:

In the U.S. now, thanks to the Democratic Congress, we'll have a new law based on the premise that the President has the power to order private actors to break the law, and when he issues such an order, the private actors will be protected from liability of any kind on the ground that the Leader told them to do it -- the very theory that the Nuremberg Trial rejected.

Really disappointing to see Americans use the same logic Nazi's tried to to justify their actions.

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by motivez

Wow, so you think those who violate the law should be immune to prosecution and lawsuits if they incorporate themselves?

they aren't violating the law if they provide information to the government.

Very disappointing position to take. I'm sorry you hate our freedom and the Constitution so much.. why live here if you think the freedoms so many have fought and died to protect are meaningless? There's other, more authoritarian countries out there that will give you what you're advocating here.

I think I would know more about fighting for freedoms than most

The FISA system was a good system that we used for 20+ years and I am glad we are back to using it. Hopefully they can speed up the court system somewhat so that there is not such a long delay.

I hate to pull a but it's relevant.

As Greenwald puts it:
Really disappointing to see Americans use the same logic Nazi's tried to to justify their actions.

we are talking about phone records and pen registers, not gassing millions of people.

[WickedLou9]

I heard that this passed on my way to work today. Obama voted for it and Clinton voted against it.
Seriously after hearing that I would vote for Clinton in a heart beat. If I had another option I wouldn't vote for Obama.