House bill to require voter ID - Page 5

ballz2wallz · 09-21-2006, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

They are pushing this in hopes that legitimate people who either don't have ID or don't want to show ID out will stay away.

Is there such a thing?

motivez · 09-21-2006, 04:43 PM

Yes.

Scrum · 09-21-2006, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Is there such a thing?

Yep.

ballz2wallz · 09-21-2006, 04:45 PM

Why would a legitimate person who wants to actively participate in this country by voting not want to show an ID to vote? Why would they not even have an ID in the first place if they really care about living in this country?

Scrum · 09-21-2006, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Why would a legitimate person who wants to actively participate in this country by voting not want to show an ID to vote? Why would they not even have an ID in the first place if they really care about living in this country?

There are certain people in certain areas who are afraid of police, even though they have done nothing wrong.

edit - and other reasons too

ballz2wallz · 09-21-2006, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

There are certain people in certain areas who are afraid of police, even though they have done nothing wrong.

edit - and other reasons too

Ah yes, I can see clearly now...you are so right. How could I have been so blind! The people afraid of police for no reason! And others too!

Scrum · 09-21-2006, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Ah yes, I can see clearly now...you are so right. How could I have been so blind! The people afraid of police for no reason! And others too!

Did you mean to post something with some relevance to the discussion here?

ballz2wallz · 09-21-2006, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

Did you mean to post something with some relevance to the discussion here?

Only when you give me legitimate examples of what I asked for.

7960 · 09-21-2006, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by beez

An ID would cut off anyone without the means or motivation to get a fake....All it specifies is 'valid photo identification'. You can fake a utility bill to go with your out-of-state ID to show you live in the district.

listen....it's not just *any* fake, it's a fake ID with your picture and a specific name and address, and one of someone who registered to vote. It would take a whole different level of planning and pre-thought. It's not just "have a fake ID" it's have a SPECIFIC fake ID.

If you're in WI you bring a photo ID along with your friend who swears that you live in the district.

Then WI law is stupid and should change.

If I want to vote twice I can get two friends to come with me to two different districts and use two different IDs.

See previous comment.

If I'm really in it to commit voting fraud I'll make sure the magnetic strip on the back of the ID matches the info on the front.

Again with the strip......you're guessing. You're throwing out wild claims hoping that we'll 'see the light' and agree with you. You're wrong. All we need is for the old vote lady to look at the ID you hand her and compare the name, address, and picture. That's it. <sarcasm> But obviously that will lead to scanning the ID, and who knows, maybe then we'll eventually have to give a blood/DNA sample, and then maybe doctors will figure out how to re-grow a pinkie finger in 11 months so they'll cut it off when we vote and re-grow it. That way they'll know who voted and we wouldn't be able to vote twice!!!!!! </sarcasm>

Dead people don't show up at the polls to get their IDs checked anyway. Unless there's some sort of death certificate->voter database information sharing I don't see how asking people for ID is going to stop that. If you've got people actually showing up to the polls to vote as a dead person then all you need to do is give them a fake ID with the dead person's name.

Again, it's a completely different game when you want to vote as a dead person. It's not a matter of just walking in and saying a name. I'm sure a fake ID could be made...heck, I'd even bet a fake ID *would* eventually be made, but knowing we can't stop *ALL* fraud how about we at least stop a big portion of it, hmm?

Scrum · 09-21-2006, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Only when you give me legitimate examples of what I asked for.

Race and Election Irregularites on November 7 2000

http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oId=16368

Just the first 2 off google.

Scrum · 09-21-2006, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Why would they not even have an ID in the first place if they really care about living in this country?

And I just noticed this part.

Typical republican. If you don't conform, you hate America!

7960 · 09-21-2006, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by beez

I'd rather Congress be focusing on making sure electronic voting works properly before worrying about people showing photo ID to vote.

I never said congress shouldn't work on electronic voting..........why does working toward requiring an ID preclude congress from getting electronic voting working correctly? They are not mutually exclusive, I'll want someone to show an ID to vote when it's electronic, too.

It's the timing of the bill rather than the content of the bill itself that makes me believe it's all about exploiting the anti-illegal sentiment in the country right now. We have the sentiment, illegal immigration is an election issue, and it's a slam dunk for pretty much any legislator in DC right now.

sure it's a hotbutton issue, but it's also one that needs (and has needed) addressing.

7960 · 09-21-2006, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

B) The Government (state or federal) makes an effort to get one to every citizen -- whether through using information like SSN/Tax records already on record, or through the Census, etc..

You can't use SSN to find people and give them voting cards....... what are the luddites going to do?!?!?!

beez · 09-21-2006, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Before an election is the best time to do it.

Especially if you're trying to look good on a hot issue

7960 · 09-21-2006, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

They are pushing this in hopes that legitimate people who either don't have ID or don't want to show ID out will stay away.
Argue that if you like, but that's the underlying reason for it even if that's not why you and I want this.

I won't argue but you're wrong. It's not the underlying reason.

Stylerod · 09-21-2006, 05:13 PM

The so-called "Voter ID" bill, aimed at stamping out voter fraud, would require voters in federal elections to provide picture identification by 2008 and provide proof of U.S. citizenship by 2010. It was among the recommendations made last year by the bipartisan Commission on Federal Election Reform, headed by former President Jimmy Carter, a Democrat, and former Secretary of State James A. Baker III, a Republican.
"Effective voter registration and voter identification are bedrocks of a modern election system," they wrote in their final report....

This seems to have gotten lost in the shuffle. What is being proposed was the result of a bipartisan Commission on Federal Election Reform headed by Jimmy Carter. It's not some Right Wing Conspiracy against minorities.

7960 · 09-21-2006, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

There are certain people in certain areas who are afraid of police, even though they have done nothing wrong.

This really isn't an issue seeing as police are barred from polling areas. Next?

Scrum · 09-21-2006, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

This really isn't an issue seeing as police are barred from polling areas. Next?

INTIMIDATION, THREATS AND HARASSMENT OF AFRICAN AMERICAN VOTERS

Witnesses reported police checkpoints or police stops of voters in the vicinity of several polling places in African American neighborhoods.

From one of the links up top.

There was also and issue from the last election, i'll have to search for a link, where they put flyers out in black neghborhoods telling them that there will be cops at the polls checking ID to make sure nobody had warrants.

ballz2wallz · 09-21-2006, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by beez

Especially if you're trying to look good on a hot issue

Aren't all politicians?

beez · 09-21-2006, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

listen....it's not just *any* fake, it's a fake ID with your picture and a specific name and address, and one of someone who registered to vote. It would take a whole different level of planning and pre-thought. It's not just "have a fake ID" it's have a SPECIFIC fake ID.

Given the whole drive (heh heh) for voter registration at the DMV you could conceivably have an easy time of gathering names and addresses from the phone book for your set of IDs. Just assume anyone with a car is registered to vote. You might have less success but if you're determined to have a group of illegals voting for you, you can make sure there are cars in those driveways.

Originally Posted by 7960

Again with the strip......you're guessing. You're throwing out wild claims hoping that we'll 'see the light' and agree with you. You're wrong. All we need is for the old vote lady to look at the ID you hand her and compare the name, address, and picture. That's it.

Well, either you have some old lady looking at an ID who is easier to fool than a magnetic strip reader or you have a magnetic strip reader which is tougher to defeat. If nice bars in NYC use strip readers to verify licenses (a whole other can of worms, that), why wouldn't polling places do the same? But ok, they're not using the strip so it's that much easier to make and distribute fakes.

Originally Posted by 7960

Again, it's a completely different game when you want to vote as a dead person. It's not a matter of just walking in and saying a name. I'm sure a fake ID could be made...heck, I'd even bet a fake ID *would* eventually be made, but knowing we can't stop *ALL* fraud how about we at least stop a big portion of it, hmm?

Dead people voting doesn't require that you walk in and physically vote. All you need is someone working on the back end of the polling system and you can ignore the ID verification at the front end. And again, if it's just some old lady checking IDs then you have your good-enough ID with the dead person's name and add