I don't take Ahmedinejad's "wipe Israel off the map" comment seriously - Page 4

SpicyMcVoodoo · 09-22-2006, 12:32 AM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Anti-Israel != anti-semite.

I'd say at least half the people in America have never conceived of such a distinction, and Israel's PR machine works very hard to keep it that way.

Stylerod · 09-22-2006, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Anti-semite? That's the stupidest fucking thing I have ever read on here. Anti-Israel != anti-semite.

You can try to hide your true feelings by saying you are only Anti-Israel if you want. But who lives in Israel? Oh, maybe 6 million Jews? Like, actual people. You know; innocent men, women and children. If you don't care that Israel get's blown up because "they shouldn't be there anyway" then guess what, you are an anti-semite and that's disgusting.

Stylerod · 09-22-2006, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

And how many of those suicide bombers have used chemical weapons?

So that makes them better people to you? Do you think they wouldn't have if they had to chance? You know they try to head to a place where they can kill the most people they can, right? Busses, weddings, markets.

garbagemanlb · 09-22-2006, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

You can try to hide your true feelings by saying you are only Anti-Israel if you want. But who lives in Israel? Oh, maybe 6 million Jews? Like, actual people. You know; innocent men, women and children. If you don't care that Israel get's blown up because "they shouldn't be there anyway" then guess what, you are an anti-semite and that's disgusting.

I am anti-zionist, which means I don't believe Israel should exist. It has only caused unrest in the middle east.

I am not an anti-semite, which would entail me disliking jews simply for their beliefs/religion. I have no problem with them establishing residences anywhere in the world...but when said residences oust other people from the land that they have lived on for generations, then I have an issue.

You are saying that it is anti-semitic to be against the state of Israel? Give me a fucking break, the state hasn't even existed for 70 years. It is a political issue, no matter how much you and others want to demonize it and classify it as a 'racist' or bigoted viewpoint.

There is a difference between being against the state of Israel and being against Jews in general. I despised what Hitler did, and I despise what Israel has done since its creation. Believe it or not, a person can believe both things.

garbagemanlb · 09-22-2006, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

So that makes them better people to you? Do you think they wouldn't have if they had to chance? You know they try to head to a place where they can kill the most people they can, right? Busses, weddings, markets.

Maybe because they don't have a fucking standing army? They use the tactics available to them. Is it wrong? Absolutely. ANY action targeting civilians is wrong (and Israel is guilty in its own right with the killing of civilians).

How many civilians died in the recent Hezbollah/Israel conflict? How many children and women? Of course you will justify the Lebanese deaths as 'collateral damage', and hypocritically be outraged when suicide bombers kill innocents in market places and on buses.

Stylerod · 09-22-2006, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by garbagemanlb

I am anti-zionist, which means I don't believe Israel should exist. It has only caused unrest in the middle east.

I am not an anti-semite, which would entail me disliking jews simply for their beliefs/religion. I have no problem with them establishing residences anywhere in the world...but when said residences oust other people from the land that they have lived on for generations, then I have an issue.

You are saying that it is anti-semitic to be against the state of Israel? Give me a fucking break, the state hasn't even existed for 70 years. It is a political issue, no matter how much you and others want to demonize it and classify it as a 'racist' or bigoted viewpoint.

There is a difference between being against the state of Israel and being against Jews in general. I despised what Hitler did, and I despise what Israel has done since its creation. Believe it or not, a person can believe both things.

I know there is a difference. And I agree that Israel has not been perfect. Far from it. But also, they are there now. It's their land.
They have given concessions in the recent past to try to make things better. Not caring that the people of Israel might be in mortal danger from a country that is run by Imams that want to see the destruction of Israel and NOW is looking to create nuclear arms IS something to be concerned about.

I tried to see if Donkey could put himself in the shoes of Jews living in Israel, whether by birth or choice, and asked if he would be concerned about the talk coming out of Iran. He couldn't/wouldn't do it because he feels Israel shouldn't be there anyway. Not being capable of that means his hate for the people of Israel is stronger than his concern for human life. And that is pretty disgusting.

Donkey® · 09-22-2006, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

You can try to hide your true feelings by saying you are only Anti-Israel if you want. But who lives in Israel? Oh, maybe 6 million Jews? Like, actual people. You know; innocent men, women and children. If you don't care that Israel get's blown up because "they shouldn't be there anyway" then guess what, you are an anti-semite and that's disgusting.

You're apparently just a moron. I don't hate people based on their religion. I think people who choose religion over logic and science are stupid...but I don't hate them. Not all people in Israel are Jews. I hate ISRAEL. I hate the fact it's a country established where it should not have been established. I hate it is the cause of a lot of strife. Get it through your thick skull...hating Israel != hating jews.

Donkey® · 09-22-2006, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

So that makes them better people to you? Do you think they wouldn't have if they had to chance? You know they try to head to a place where they can kill the most people they can, right? Busses, weddings, markets.

Chemical weapons are widely available and Iran has a potent stockpile of them. Why haven't they used them against Israel since YOU think they want to bomb the shit out of Israel and kill everyone there? Why, if they haven't even used lessor WMDs like chemical weapons, would they buck up and use an atomic bomb if they even had one? It's blind hate for muslims. Talk about hate.

Donkey® · 09-22-2006, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

I know there is a difference. And I agree that Israel has not been perfect. Far from it. But also, they are there now. It's their land.

You don't fucking know the difference because you've said the same things over and over. Also, it's their land but it wasn't OBTAINED...it was handed to them...and a LOT of people had the land stolen from them.

Originally Posted by Stylerod

They have given concessions in the recent past to try to make things better. Not caring that the people of Israel might be in mortal danger from a country that is run by Imams that want to see the destruction of Israel and NOW is looking to create nuclear arms IS something to be concerned about.

Who is Israel to give concessions? It's as sad as the US government exterminating the American Indian...putting them on reservations...and 200 years later saying "here, have casinos."

Originally Posted by Stylerod

I tried to see if Donkey could put himself in the shoes of Jews living in Israel, whether by birth or choice, and asked if he would be concerned about the talk coming out of Iran. He couldn't/wouldn't do it because he feels Israel shouldn't be there anyway. Not being capable of that means his hate for the people of Israel is stronger than his concern for human life. And that is pretty disgusting.

I can put myself in an Israeli's shoes...but the thing is, I don't have to. They are not the victims here. They are the ones in the wrong. That country should not exist where it is. Period. If they had put it somewhere else, America, Canada, Europe, I would probably say the same thing. You can't just hand people a country based on religion. It was wrong to do so. But, since the Germans WERE responsible for a bunch of shit during WWII, THEY should have been the ones punished and the capital of Israel should be Hamburg or something.

Stylerod · 09-22-2006, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Chemical weapons are widely available and Iran has a potent stockpile of them. Why haven't they used them against Israel since YOU think they want to bomb the shit out of Israel and kill everyone there? Why, if they haven't even used lessor WMDs like chemical weapons, would they buck up and use an atomic bomb if they even had one? It's blind hate for muslims. Talk about hate.

I think Iran hasn't used them because Israel has nukes.

So show me where I have a blind hate for muslims? Please.

Stylerod · 09-22-2006, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

You don't fucking know the difference because you've said the same things over and over. Also, it's their land but it wasn't OBTAINED...it was handed to them...and a LOT of people had the land stolen from them.

Who is Israel to give concessions? It's as sad as the US government exterminating the American Indian...putting them on reservations...and 200 years later saying "here, have casinos."

I can put myself in an Israeli's shoes...but the thing is, I don't have to. They are not the victims here. They are the ones in the wrong. That country should not exist where it is. Period. If they had put it somewhere else, America, Canada, Europe, I would probably say the same thing. You can't just hand people a country based on religion. It was wrong to do so. But, since the Germans WERE responsible for a bunch of shit during WWII, THEY should have been the ones punished and the capital of Israel should be Hamburg or something.

Why would they want Hamburg? Was Hamburg in their history at all? Is it the people of Israels fault that the UN gave them a piece of land to call home? And because you hate that decision from 60 years ago you are ok with them being murdered. Nice.

Oh, I love you threw in the American Indian reference!

Diamond Cross · 09-22-2006, 03:43 PM

A couple of things.

1st saying he wants and having the capability to do so are two different things.

2nd Get MAD.

3rd I'd take it seriously becuase several times in the history of Israel wars have been launched to literally wipe Israel off the map. Many anti-ISrael terrorist groups, such as the PLO, have it as their main objective.

3rd, it is believed by the Palestinians that all of Israel is occupied territory because they erroneously believe that it is their homeland.

4th They've been firing rockets at Israeli civllian centers for months now.

5th When Israel finally withdrew from Gaza, Hamas took over and began firing rockets nearly continuously when Palestine was founded.

5th. They don't recognise Israel's right to exist. Especially with the Palestinians, they don't show Israel on any maps, it is not taught in any schools and is not in any textbooks.

Finally, I'd reccomend tht you watch the documentary Obsession which is about Radical Islam.

SpicyMcVoodoo · 09-22-2006, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

A couple of things.

1st saying he wants and having the capability to do so are two different things.

2nd Get MAD.

3rd I'd take it seriously becuase several times in the history of Israel wars have been launched to literally wipe Israel off the map. Many anti-ISrael terrorist groups, such as the PLO, have it as their main objective.

3rd, it is believed by the Palestinians that all of Israel is occupied territory because they erroneously believe that it is their homeland.

4th They've been firing rockets at Israeli civllian centers for months now.

5th When Israel finally withdrew from Gaza, Hamas took over and began firing rockets nearly continuously when Palestine was founded.

5th. They don't recognise Israel's right to exist. Especially with the Palestinians, they don't show Israel on any maps, it is not taught in any schools and is not in any textbooks.

Finally, I'd reccomend tht you watch the documentary Obsession which is about Radical Islam.

How does it make sense to kill all of the Palestinians when freeing them from oppression is your goal? And how does it make sense to turn Palestine into a nuclear wasteland when it's the Holy land and you think it should be run by Muslims, not Israel? For religious reasons alone, fundamentalist muslims wouldn't nuke Israel...it contains too many secred Islamic sites.

Diamond Cross · 09-22-2006, 07:14 PM

First of all, the only people who're oppressing the Palestinians is the Palestinians themselves. There is no such thing as an Israeli apartheied. That means there is no freeing them.

I do not support the Palestinain people in any way as they've been proven to be the terrorists. Israel has always held back from launching an all-out genocidal war, and believe me, even without nuclear capability, they have the power to do so. And those Islamic sites were originally Jewish Sacred sites.

There is no such thing as a "Palestinian" people, but because of the press and Europe repeating the name so damned much, amking matters worse, it's hard not to call them the displaced people they really are. There has never ever been a nation called Palestine and that is one of the biggest lies ever.

There was never a serious Arab-Palestinian national movement until 1964... three years BEFORE the Arabs of "Palestine" lost the West Bank [Judea and Samaria] and Gaza as a result of the 1967 Six-Day War which the Arabs started. If anyone is oppressing people it is the Muslims. They control 99% of the entire Middle East at least, not to mention Northern Africa and other Muslims elsewhere, and their current attempt to turn Europe into a Muslim controlled territory.

Yes I am very pro-Israel. Despite the Military Might, Israel is the true underdog in this situation because of all the Racism in Europe and abroad.
A great example of thise Racism is Kofi Anon telling Israel it must use proportinate response to Hezbolloh's action. Why should Israel use this method? Proportionate response means that if my enemy kidnaps my soldiers, I must kidnap some of his and so on and so forth until things escalate out of control. Israel has never been the aggressor in any war it's been involved in'

Yet when America had 911, the entire world was with her and supported her non-proportionate response to terrorism. So what makies Israel so important to have this kind of double standard?

I'd like you to look at this video here:

Brigitte Gabriel Interview

And I'd like you to see this website here about what it's like for women under Muslim law:

Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan (RAWA)

Israel is not the oppressor here. And in fact, Israeli citizens have full rights and pivaleges regardless if Jew or Arabian Israeli

SpicyMcVoodoo · 09-22-2006, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by Diamond Cross

First of all, the only people who're oppressing the Palestinians is the Palestinians themselves. There is no such thing as an Israeli apartheied. That means there is no freeing them.

I do not support the Palestinain people in any way as they've been proven to be the terrorists. Israel has always held back from launching an all-out genocidal war, and believe me, even without nuclear capability, they have the power to do so. And those Islamic sites were originally Jewish Sacred sites.

There is no such thing as a "Palestinian" people, but because of the press and Europe repeating the name so damned much, amking matters worse, it's hard not to call them the displaced people they really are. There has never ever been a nation called Palestine and that is one of the biggest lies ever.

There was never a serious Arab-Palestinian national movement until 1964... three years BEFORE the Arabs of "Palestine" lost the West Bank [Judea and Samaria] and Gaza as a result of the 1967 Six-Day War which the Arabs started. If anyone is oppressing people it is the Muslims. They control 99% of the entire Middle East at least, not to mention Northern Africa and other Muslims elsewhere, and their current attempt to turn Europe into a Muslim controlled territory.

Yes I am very pro-Israel. Despite the Military Might, Israel is the true underdog in this situation because of all the Racism in Europe and abroad.
A great example of thise Racism is Kofi Anon telling Israel it must use proportinate response to Hezbolloh's action. Why should Israel use this method? Proportionate response means that if my enemy kidnaps my soldiers, I must kidnap some of his and so on and so forth until things escalate out of control. Israel has never been the aggressor in any war it's been involved in'

Yet when America had 911, the entire world was with her and supported her non-proportionate response to terrorism. So what makies Israel so important to have this kind of double standard?

I'd like you to look at this video here:

Brigitte Gabriel Interview

And I'd like you to see this website here about what it's like for women under Muslim law:

Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan (RAWA)

Israel is not the oppressor here. And in fact, Israeli citizens have full rights and pivaleges regardless if Jew or Arabian Israeli

In this entire rant, you didn't even come close answering the basic questions I posed, so I'll repeat them:

How does it make sense to kill all of the Palestinians when freeing them from oppression is your goal? And how does it make sense to turn Palestine into a nuclear wasteland when it's the Holy land and you think it should be run by Muslims, not Israel? For religious reasons alone, fundamentalist muslims wouldn't nuke Israel...it contains too many secred Islamic sites.

I realize you don't think the Palestinian people exist, and you don't think Israel is oppressing them, but that's beside the point. The people who you claim would nuke them do, and the questions above assume that mindset.

motivez · 09-22-2006, 07:23 PM

Saying Israel is not the oppressor is blatently ignoring the conditions under which Palestinians are forced to live. Israel has a harsh military occupation and controls almost every aspect of their lives.

There's virtually no economy, their fields are regularly plowed, their homes are regularly bulldozed, there are regular military incursions into towns with innocent people being killed.

Palestinian's are denied access to certain roads to be able to get to their homes, they're forced to stay indoors for days at a time, unable to leave villages for weeks at a time, etc, etc..

They still have no autonomy over their land even after the "pullouts" because Israel still controls access to water, and regularly violates the boundaries of their "territory" for whatever purposes they deem fit.

If you were living in those conditions, you'd assuredly think that fighting back was a good use of your time.

Also, it's patently false to assert that someone who is anti-Israel in terms of their policy torwards the Palestinians, and just foreign policy in general is an anti-Semite.

It's retarded and bullshit to say you can't disagree with a nation's policy without being racist, or anti-Jew simply because Jews live there. It's like saying that because I'm against the way the Darfur government treats its people, I hate Africans.

It's stupid and dishonest and anyone who has a capability to think for themselves should be able to see that.

Diamond Cross · 09-22-2006, 07:28 PM

They are doing it to themselves Israel has absolutely nothing to do with that. Saying otherwise is just another bullshit lie and scapegoating Israeol.

After all, ISrael is to blame for everything that's wrng with the
middle East. Only when all Jews everywhere have been euthanised can there be peace in the Middle East.

When Israel withdrew from the terrirtory they wanted, they were given hundreds of millions of dollars to help themselves develop their own country, to pull thmselves out of those conditions.

Instead, they used the money to buy rockets and along with Hezbollah have been firing rockets into civillian population centers ever since. Sure they weant to develo9p a new country for themselves to provide a better future for their children.

Oh yeah, sure there's an Israeli Apartheid.