I don't take Ahmedinejad's "wipe Israel off the map" comment seriously

SpicyMcVoodoo · 09-21-2006, 12:50 PM

That one comment is used most to justify why Iran cannot have access to nuclear materials. However, I don't see how anyone could take his "wipe off the map" comment to mean he would nuke Israel.

He always says that it makes no sense, even if the Holocaust happened, that the Palestinian people should have to pay for it. Why then would he help the Palestinian people by nuking them? Israel isn't a large area. You can't nuke one part of it without destroying or killing everyone in the occupied terroritories.

Furthermore, he knows that if he nuked Israel, Israel would nuke Iran back and destroy every person in the entire country. Has he said or done anything to indicate he's so batshit insane he would kill every man, woman and child in Iran?

Sure, anything is possible...and maybe he is batshit insane, but it seems very, very unlikely. What's more likely is that he was just using anti-zionist talk to drum up support from his people, the same way our politicians bash unpopular groups here. I think it's a pretty far stretch to equate his comment to mean he admitted he would nuke Israel. When he said "Israel should be wiped off the map," he probably meant simply what every other Arab thinks...Israel, as a state, should not exist. It doesn't follow from that that nuking it is a good idea.

Let's be intellectually honest here...saying Ahmedinejad's comment means he wants to nuke Israel is about as realistic as saying Bush's "crusade" comment means he wants to start a war against Islam.

garbagemanlb · 09-21-2006, 12:53 PM

I think the bigger threat is if the nuclear material Iran might develop gets or 'slips' into the hands of a terrorist group that really has nothing to lose.

Stylerod · 09-21-2006, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

That one comment is used most to justify why Iran cannot have access to nuclear materials. However, I don't see how anyone could take his "wipe off the map" comment to mean he would nuke Israel.

He always says that it makes no sense, even if the Holocaust happened, that the Palestinian people should have to pay for it. Why then would he help the Palestinian people by nuking them? Israel isn't a large area. You can't nuke one part of it without destroying or killing everyone in the occupied terroritories.

Furthermore, he knows that if he nuked Israel, Israel would nuke Iran back and destroy every person in the entire country. Has he said or done anything to indicate he's so batshit insane he would kill every man, woman and child in Iran?

Sure, anything is possible...and maybe he is batshit insane, but it seems very, very unlikely. What's more likely is that he was just using anti-zionist talk to drum up support from his people, the same way our politicians bash unpopular groups here. I think it's a pretty far stretch to equate his comment to mean he admitted he would nuke Israel. When he said "Israel should be wiped off the map," he probably meant simply what every other Arab thinks...Israel, as a state, should not exist. It doesn't follow from that that nuking it is a good idea.

Let's be intellectually honest here...saying Ahmedinejad's comment means he wants to nuke Israel is about as realistic as saying Bush's "crusade" comment means he wants to start a war against Islam.

Sometimes it's in your best interest to listen to the words someone uses and not try to "guess" what they really meant. You also have to take into account what he is doing at the same time as his words are spoken.

SpicyMcVoodoo · 09-21-2006, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by garbagemanlb

I think the bigger threat is if the nuclear material Iran might develop gets or 'slips' into the hands of a terrorist group that really has nothing to lose.

Sure, I agree...there are plenty of good arguments as to why Iran shouldn't have nukes, but his "Israel should be wiped off the map" comment is not one of them.

Stylerod · 09-21-2006, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Sure, I agree...there are plenty of good arguments as to why Iran shouldn't have nukes, but his "Israel should be wiped off the map" comment is not one of them.

Sure it is.

SpicyMcVoodoo · 09-21-2006, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Sometimes it's in your best interest to listen to the words someone uses and not try to "guess" what they really meant. You also have to take into account what he is doing at the same time as his words are spoken.

There is no guessing. It doesn't make any sense, nor is it realistic, to think he meant he was going to nuke Israel. As I said, that's as unrealistic as thinking Bush meant by "crusade" he wanted to have a war against Islam. Do you follow your own advice above to think Bush really wants a war against Islam?

garbagemanlb · 09-21-2006, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Sure, I agree...there are plenty of good arguments as to why Iran shouldn't have nukes, but his "Israel should be wiped off the map" comment is not one of them.

I agree completely. Iran knows it would be decimated if it ever tried to start a war with Israel, even if by some miracle it had the resources to blow a nuclear weapon over Israeli soil.

That quote is simply meant as a means of further demonizing the country and is being used by the right as a means of drumming up support for military action against Iran and as proof that negotiating won't work.

Stylerod · 09-21-2006, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

There is no guessing. It doesn't make any sense, nor is it realistic, to think he meant he was going to nuke Israel. As I said, that's as unrealistic as thinking Bush meant by "crusade" he wanted to have a war against Islam. Do you follow your own advice above to think Bush really wants a war against Islam?

How else are they going to "wipe them off the map"? Talk nicely and the Jews will all just leave? What would a country have to do, exactly, to wipe Israel off the map do you think?

Crusade can be used for many things. I did a google for "Crusade against" and this is what it came up with:

Crusade Against Evolution
Crusade Against Hepatitis C
Castro, Chavez United in Crusade Against US ...
Crusade Against Credit , Lesley Stahl Talks To A Debt-Fighting ...
Gore urges moral crusade against global warming

Now, what do you think would be the reaction if Bush said we needed to "wipe Iran off the map"? Would you be that quick to defend Bush???

JaJae · 09-21-2006, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Now, what do you think would be the reaction if Bush said we needed to "wipe Iran off the map"? Would you be that quick to defend Bush???

You should also include the fact that Bush would have almost a totalitarian rule over the nation while making that comment.

SpicyMcVoodoo · 09-21-2006, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

What would a country have to do, exactly, to wipe Israel off the map do you think?

You can wipe a country off the map without nuking it...the USSR was wiped off the map without a nuke being fired, and countless other countries no longer exist...the phrase "wiping off the map" is just inflammatory rhetoric that politicans use to capitalize on rampant anti-semitism. This is why the comment shouldn't be taken seriously.

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Crusade can be used for many things. I did a google for "Crusade against" and this is what it came up with:

Crusade Against Evolution
Crusade Against Hepatitis C
Castro, Chavez United in Crusade Against US ...
Crusade Against Credit , Lesley Stahl Talks To A Debt-Fighting ...
Gore urges moral crusade against global warming

Now, what do you think would be the reaction if Bush said we needed to "wipe Iran off the map"? Would you be that quick to defend Bush???

Well, firstly, Ahemdinejad didn't say, "We need to wipe Israel off the map." He was quoting some Imam (Pope sytle

)

"As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map," said Ahmadinejad, referring to Iran's revolutionary leader Ayat Allah Khomeini.

But anyway, I don't see why you're creating hypotheticals for things Bush has said. He already said something even more inflammatory:

Bush warned Americans that "this crusade, this war on terrorism, is going to take awhile."

He referred to an ancient war by Christians against Muslims. Obviously he didn't mean that we were going to have a war by Christians to conquor Muslims, that would be completely unrealistic, but Muslims took it that way. In the same way, it would be completely unrealistic for Ahmedinejad to mean he wanted to nuke Israel, but you're taking it that way.

SpicyMcVoodoo · 09-21-2006, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Now, what do you think would be the reaction if Bush said we needed to "wipe Iran off the map"? Would you be that quick to defend Bush???

Well, that analogy wouldn't work. We're the world's only superpower, and we actually could destroy the entire world with nukes, and we also just invaded two Muslim countries. In contrast, Iran can't do shit and hasn't invaded anyone. So it's a little more obvious in the case of Iran that the comment shoudn't be taken seriously. But if Bush ever said that publically, I can assume Bush isn't so crazy that he was talking about nuking Iran...so I would criticize Bush for being an inflammatory, inarticulate retard, but ultimately I would maintain he didn't really intend to nuke anyone.

Stylerod · 09-21-2006, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

But anyway, I don't see why you're creating hypotheticals for things Bush has said. He already said something even more inflammatory:

He referred to an ancient war by Christians against Muslims. Obviously he didn't mean that we were going to have a war by Christians to conquor Muslims, that would be completely unrealistic, but Muslims took it that way. In the same way, it would be completely unrealistic for Ahmedinejad to mean he wanted to nuke Israel, but you're taking it that way.

So did you make a thread defending Bush's Crusade comments? Or is that only limited to World leaders making threats against Jews?

ballz2wallz · 09-21-2006, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

That one comment is used most to justify why Iran cannot have access to nuclear materials.

No, it's just one of the many examples. It just sums up his mindset most clearly.

ballz2wallz · 09-21-2006, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

So did you make a thread defending Bush's Crusade comments? Or is that only limited to World leaders making threats against Jews?

Of course not. Bush is worse than Ahmedinejad.

SpicyMcVoodoo · 09-21-2006, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

So did you make a thread defending Bush's Crusade comments? Or is that only limited to World leaders making threats against Jews?

I didn't need to make a thread defending Bush's crusade comments. No one in America was so intellectually dishonest to think he really meant a medieval crusade. On the other, hand, everyone and his brother really does think Ahmedinejad means he wants to nuke Israel, even though it that's just as unrealistic as thinking Bush wants a war against Islam.

SpicyMcVoodoo · 09-21-2006, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

No, it's just one of the many examples. It just sums up his mindset most clearly.

I hate to break it to you, but most of the Arab world, including plenty of people in the Western world, think that the state of Israel should not exist. But please don't try to twist that into these people wanting to nuke Israel.

ballz2wallz · 09-21-2006, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

I hate to break it to you, but most of the Arab world, including plenty of people in the Western world, think that the state of Israel should not exist. But please don't try to twist that into these people wanting to nuke Israel.

Why do you hate to break it to me? A lot of Americans, even on this board, don't think they should exist either. More liberals agreeing with dictatorships and communist regimes.

Stylerod · 09-21-2006, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

You can wipe a country off the map without nuking it...the USSR was wiped off the map without a nuke being fired, and countless other countries no longer exist...the phrase "wiping off the map" is just inflammatory rhetoric that politicans use to capitalize on rampant anti-semitism. This is why the comment shouldn't be taken seriously.

Well, firstly, Ahemdinejad didn't say, "We need to wipe Israel off the map." He was quoting some Imam (Pope sytle )

But anyway, I don't see why you're creating hypotheticals for things Bush has said. He already said something even more inflammatory:

He referred to an ancient war by Christians against Muslims. Obviously he didn't mean that we were going to have a war by Christians to conquor Muslims, that would be completely unrealistic, but Muslims took it that way. In the same way, it would be completely unrealistic for Ahmedinejad to mean he wanted to nuke Israel, but you're taking it that way.

"As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map," said Ahmadinejad

As per your quote. He agrees with the Imam that "Isreal must be wiped off the map". Now, how does one go about doing that?

ballz2wallz · 09-21-2006, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Stylerod