Texas goes green

JaJae · 07-18-2008, 08:08 AM

Texas is leading the way in clean energy it seems..

AUSTIN, Texas (AP) - Texas, headquarters of America's oil industry, is about to stake a fortune on wind power.

In what experts say is the biggest investment in the clean and renewable energy in U.S. history, utility officials in the Lone Star State gave preliminary approval Thursday to a $4.9 billion plan to build new transmission lines to carry wind-generated electricity from gusty West Texas to urban areas like Dallas.

"People think about oil wells and football in Texas, but in 10 years they'll look back and say this was a brilliant thing to do," said Patrick Woodson, vice president of E.On Climate & Renewables North America, which has about 1,200 megawatts of wind projects already in use or on the drawing board in Texas.

My Way News - Texas approves major new wind power project

They're saying if they do this project they'll be able to power 4 million homes off wind power. The Texas Utility Commission just voted in approval and they should get this moving soon. It's good to see clean energy starting to be used.

Stylerod · 07-18-2008, 09:35 AM

Everyone wants clean renewable power except, ironically, environmentalists (oh yeah, and Ted Kennedy).

Environmentalists and landowners have launched protests against wind turbines from Cape Cod in Massachusetts to Idaho and Texas' South Padre Island, complaining that wind turbines spoil the view and threaten migrating birds.

WickedLou9 · 07-18-2008, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Everyone wants clean renewable power except, ironically, environmentalists (oh yeah, and Ted Kennedy).

I was so pissed to hear about that. The farm was going to be like 6 miles off the coast or something. That area has some of the most consistant and predictable winds in the world and these sons of bitches didn't want thier view spoiled. You know, when they are sitting in the living room of thier 10 million dollar nantucket estate and they are looking out over the ocean. Aghast! I say what are those large whirly-gigs?! Well, this is clearly unworkable. My entire mansion is useless.

Stylerod · 07-18-2008, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

I was so pissed to hear about that. The farm was going to be like 6 miles off the coast or something. That area has some of the most consistant and predictable winds in the world and these sons of bitches didn't want thier view spoiled. You know, when they are sitting in the living room of thier 10 million dollar nantucket estate and they are looking out over the ocean. Aghast! I say what are those large whirly-gigs?! Well, this is clearly unworkable. My entire mansion is useless.

And the funny thing is. I don't think they look bad. They are all over the place in Germany, and I think they are cool looking. It's hard to describe but when I would see 3 or 4 in a row on top of some hills near a small town it was almost inspiring. Like, that little town generates it's own clean power. How cool is that?

We thought they were cool enough that I took some pictures of my son near them while we were exploring on my uncles scooter.

This photo shows how HUGE they really are.

WickedLou9 · 07-18-2008, 10:15 AM

yeah they have one on Boston Harbor in this little town called Hull. The town put it up and I guess it powers the school or something. We see it every time we go up to visit and my father takes us out on the boat. I think it's pretty neat looking too.

Hull Wind.org, Wind Power, Wind Energy in Hull, MA - Awards

Originally Posted by Stylerod

And the funny thing is. I don't think they look bad. They are all over the place in Germany, and I think they are cool looking. It's hard to describe but when I would see 3 or 4 in a row on top of some hills near a small town it was almost inspiring. Like, that little town generates it's own clean power. How cool is that?

We thought they were cool enough that I took some pictures of my son near them while we were exploring on my uncles scooter.

This photo shows how HUGE they really are.

7960 · 07-18-2008, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

...That area has some of the most consistant and predictable winds in the world and these sons of bitches didn't want thier view spoiled.

No, it's not the view. They won't be able to see it from the island.

His opposition is about control and power, nothing else. They were trying to shake down the developer...I'm sorry, I mean "negotiate more favorable terms with the developer"....when a senator from alaska put the project in a Coast Guard bill without Kennedy's knowledge or approval. With that they had to find a way to oppose the bill without appearing to oppose "clean energy." Basically the guy from alaska fucked him and now kennedy has to appear to like wiping the lube from his ass while he's secretly rounding up people to go kill the guy.

WickedLou9 · 07-18-2008, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by 7960

No, it's not the view. They won't be able to see it from the island.

His opposition is about control and power, nothing else. They were trying to shake down the developer...I'm sorry, I mean "negotiate more favorable terms with the developer"....when a senator from alaska put the project in a Coast Guard bill without Kennedy's knowledge or approval. With that they had to find a way to oppose the bill without appearing to oppose "clean energy." Basically the guy from alaska fucked him and now kennedy has to appear to like wiping the lube from his ass while he's secretly rounding up people to go kill the guy.

Storm Over Mass. Windmill Plan, Plan For Nantucket Sound Wind Farm Raises Debate - CBS News

It looks like there is alot of opposition for alot of reasons. Asthetics, damage to local eco-system, lack of regulations... there is an interesting bit that talks about oil companies paying tons of money to drill in US waters but wind farms would not pay anything.

David Octavius · 07-18-2008, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Everyone wants clean renewable power except, ironically, environmentalists (oh yeah, and Ted Kennedy).

Ok since you want to throw (yet again) something that should be a positive into a blame someone on the left game, don't forget that many conservative homeowners protest these things too. In Long Island NY a plan for wind power had to be terminated because beach residence's complained that having those mills 100 of yards from their beach front in the ocean spoiled their view and adversely affected their property value. These were not environmentalists, and most were not liberals, LI has been republican dominated for years.

They will always be myopic complainers but it doesn't take away from the fact that most people on both sides view this as a positive.

JaJae · 07-18-2008, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

Storm Over Mass. Windmill Plan, Plan For Nantucket Sound Wind Farm Raises Debate - CBS News

It looks like there is alot of opposition for alot of reasons. Asthetics, damage to local eco-system, lack of regulations... there is an interesting bit that talks about oil companies paying tons of money to drill in US waters but wind farms would not pay anything.

Kennedy couldn't see it from his mansion, however, the wind turbines would be in a popular vacation location for them and that is likely the cause of it. The Army Corps of Engineers did a comprehensive survery of environmental damage and wildlife impacts that was thousands of pages long and showed there would be negligible impacts on the environment. All the reasons people use to explain why they were blocked are really bunk. I don't think we'll ever know the real reason Kennedy blocked it, but I have a feeling it has to do with all his family and rich buddies who enjoy the location without the turbines. He hasn't given a valid reason that I can see and by default I'm assuming it's personal reasons.

WickedLou9 · 07-18-2008, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

Kennedy couldn't see it from his mansion, however, the wind turbines would be in a popular vacation location for them and that is likely the cause of it. The Army Corps of Engineers did a comprehensive survery of environmental damage and wildlife impacts that was thousands of pages long and showed there would be negligible impacts on the environment. All the reasons people use to explain why they were blocked are really bunk. I don't think we'll ever know the real reason Kennedy blocked it, but I have a feeling it has to do with all his family and rich buddies who enjoy the location without the turbines. He hasn't given a valid reason that I can see and by default I'm assuming it's personal reasons.

I would bet that half of those people have yachts that they take out into nantucket sound and they don't want to look at the turbines.

Capewind has a website actually and it looks like they are actually making some progress.

JaJae · 07-18-2008, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

I would bet that half of those people have yachts that they take out into nantucket sound and they don't want to look at the turbines.

Capewind has a website actually and it looks like they are actually making some progress.

That's exactly the rumors I heard. The Kennedys use that area for their yachting, fishing and vacationing. They have a house out in that area and the Kennedy family and friends have been going there for a long time. The middle class person in MA probably doesn't care about it. The only people who would care are the wealthy people who go out there in their yachts.

Stylerod · 07-18-2008, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by David Octavius

Ok since you want to throw (yet again) something that should be a positive into a blame someone on the left game, don't forget that many conservative homeowners protest these things too. In Long Island NY a plan for wind power had to be terminated because beach residence's complained that having those mills 100 of yards from their beach front in the ocean spoiled their view and adversely affected their property value. These were not environmentalists, and most were not liberals, LI has been republican dominated for years.

They will always be myopic complainers but it doesn't take away from the fact that most people on both sides view this as a positive.

100 yards from their homes? I would be upset as well. Those things are huge and can be noisy as well. They need to be further than that from populated areas. You know, like the ones in MA that are 6 MILES AWAY but Teddy is still bitching about it.

David Octavius · 07-18-2008, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

100 yards from their homes? I would be upset as well. Those things are huge and can be noisy as well. They need to be further than that from populated areas. You know, like the ones in MA that are 6 MILES AWAY but Teddy is still bitching about it.

It was much more than a 100 yards, it was out there but I don't remember the exact distance - it was far enough that it was at most a minor eye sore in the distance

Schrödinger's Cat · 07-19-2008, 03:23 PM

I really don't get this whole argument from aesthetics. I'd risk the natural views of an area for a renewable, clean power source. It's pretty selfish that a person wouldn't; it is based purely on a subjective preference of something looking better.

Rouger2 · 07-19-2008, 04:47 PM

Texas is taking the lead on wind energy. That is great and San Antonio's City PUblic Service is talking about building a big solar installation. Now if we can get high speed rail between SA and Austin and then the whole state, they just might drag this state into the twenty first century.

6SpeedTA95 · 07-19-2008, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by Rouger2

Texas is taking the lead on wind energy. That is great and San Antonio's City PUblic Service is talking about building a big solar installation. Now if we can get high speed rail between SA and Austin and then the whole state, they just might drag this state into the twenty first century.

Investing in solar right now is a waste IMO. The coverage required for the power given is pretty substantial. I'd much rather focus on wind at this point. There are some promising developments on the solar front though. Within five years things could be much more efficient. Backup solar/wind power with quick firing nat gas power generators and you can have a pretty good power infrastructure. We're still 15 to 20 years away from widescale implementation though

Rouger2 · 07-20-2008, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

Investing in solar right now is a waste IMO. The coverage required for the power given is pretty substantial. I'd much rather focus on wind at this point. There are some promising developments on the solar front though. Within five years things could be much more efficient. Backup solar/wind power with quick firing nat gas power generators and you can have a pretty good power infrastructure. We're still 15 to 20 years away from widescale implementation though

I haven't heard anything in the LL about T Boone Pickens, the oil man, plans to provide a quarter of the energy needs of the country with wind energy. With thousands and thousands of wind generators and power lines located along the middle of the country from Texas to the Canadian border. Replacing the energy that is now being provided by natural gas which he says could be used as fuel for automobiles allowing us to stop importing oil from over seas. I don't know if it can be done but if he can get the people of the country behind him he might get it done. He is on television here in San Antonio all the time touting this plan, but he needs a national following. He is going to make a lot of money off this plan but if it works who cares.

6SpeedTA95 · 07-20-2008, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by Rouger2

I haven't heard anything in the LL about T Boone Pickens, the oil man, plans to provide a quarter of the energy needs of the country with wind energy. With thousands and thousands of wind generators and power lines located along the middle of the country from Texas to the Canadian border. Replacing the energy that is now being provided by natural gas which he says could be used as fuel for automobiles allowing us to stop importing oil from over seas. I don't know if it can be done but if he can get the people of the country behind him he might get it done. He is on television here in San Antonio all the time touting this plan, but he needs a national following. He is going to make a lot of money off this plan but if it works who cares.

Not a smart move IMO. Wind energy is too erratic and the best way to supplement any renewable energy is with nat gas because the plants can be very quickly fired. Also keep in mind that Pickens still has oil interest but he has shifted the bulk of his investment to natural gas and renewables for the time being. So that should tell you why he's pushing this nat gas/wind thing so hard. I think we need to supplement our power generation but with today's turbines to meet 25% of our energy needs we'd need an insane amount of wind turbines. Furthermore putting them all in the central part of the country makes the overall power grid susceptible to weather conditions affecting the plains. There are times when Texas/Oklahoma/Kansas/Nebraska are so windy its insane, othre times that its dead still and we'd still have to get energy from somewhere...nat gas is the answer when wind is down. It's clean and as I said it requires no prep, you simply flip a switch and wham, electricity.

I think perhaps its a great start, but I have mixed feelings about shifting transportation to nat gas. You should also know I work in nat gas/oil, primarily nat gas, my company has everything to gain from this proposal as do I personally, but at this point I don't feel its a smart move to try and shift all transportation to nat gas.

Rouger2 · 07-20-2008, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

Not a smart move IMO. Wind energy is too erratic and the best way to supplement any renewable energy is with nat gas because the plants can be very quickly fired. Also keep in mind that Pickens still has oil interest but he has shifted the bulk of his investment to natural gas and renewables for the time being. So that should tell you why he's pushing this nat gas/wind thing so hard. I think we need to supplement our power generation but with today's turbines to meet 25% of our energy needs we'd need an insane amount of wind turbines. Furthermore putting them all in the central part of the country makes the overall power grid susceptible to weather conditions affecting the plains. There are times when Texas/Oklahoma/Kansas/Nebraska are so windy its insane, othre times that its dead still and we'd still have to get energy from somewhere...nat gas is the answer when wind is down. It's clean and as I said it requires no prep, you simply flip a switch and wham, electricity.

I think perhaps its a great start, but I have mixed feelings about shifting transportation to nat gas. You should also know I work in nat gas/oil, primarily nat gas, my company has everything to gain from this proposal as do I personally, but at this point I don't feel its a smart move to try and shift all transportation to nat gas.

Well you should know, but Pickens seems to think the plan will work, and I don't know all of the particulars of his plan, but I'm sure he has taken into consideration the wind fluctuations. Like I said he is going to make a lot of money, but who cares if it works.