Parents refusing to let go

[kinggovernor]

Training parents for college
Moms and dads chargeinto student life lessons
By Jay Rey NEWS STAFF REPORTER
Updated: 07/23/08 7:51 AM

It wasn’t long ago when a handshake, a hug and a bus ticket back home for Thanksgiving were all parents knew about sending their kid off to college.

These days, new college parents get two days of training.

There’s an extended campus tour, tips on what to expect during the next four years and advice to doting parents on letting go.

That means no calling the college to complain about your kid’s grades or the mess in his room — which happens.

“This is the first one going away,” said Mike Economou of Rochester, who has a daughter headed to the University at Buffalo. “It’s going to be hard.”

Colleges typically use the summer to acquaint freshmen with their campuses, and it’s nothing new for parents to tag along.

But a funny thing happened.

“Institutions started getting more and more parents showing up,” said Joyce Holl, executive director of the National Orientation Directors Association, a resource for colleges. “They started to recognize they need to have programs geared toward them.”

So more colleges began putting together formal parent orientations to talk about academics or financial aid or dining services, Holl said. Some programs last just an hour or two, while others — like at Canisius and Buffalo State colleges — go for two days.

UB will host some 2,000 moms and dads this month for two-day parent orientations.

“When these first started, not a lot of students brought parents with them,” said Matthew Weigand, director of new student programs at UB. “Now, just about half of all incoming freshmen bring at least one parent to the two-day program.”

Interest has always been high at Niagara University, where parent orientations have been going on for years, said Sheila Hausrath, vice president of Student Life.

But the program has evolved. “Our program may have been just a couple of morning sessions, then parents would kind of go shopping in the area,” Hausrath said. “Now, they’re here the whole day. We’ve had to make the program longer, because there have been more areas parents needed addressed.”

There are different points of view as to what’s going on.

As more and more students seek higher education after high school, their parents — many of whom didn’t attend college — want to know what campus life is about.

“You’re sending your child off to this whole new world,” said Donna Hallick, an Ellicottville mother, who was at UB’s parent orientation recently.

And as the cost of college soars, parents want to know they’re getting their money’s worth.

“It’s a huge investment,” said Bertrand Reed Sr., a parent from Ithaca. “It’s good to get here to get a lay of the land, so there are no surprises in August.”

Holl has another theory.

“It’s a generational thing,” she said.

Colleges tend to agree this generation is much more attached to their “helicopter parents,” who have hovered over every aspect of their lives since day care.

“This generation of parents is just more involved,” Holl said, “more interested.”

Technology has played a role.

“It used to be students called home on Sunday night, and that was the only time they talked to their parents for the week,” Weigand said. “Now, they’re communicating to them either by cell phone, text message or e-mail multiple times a day. So, when something goes wrong, mom and dad are going to hear about it and want to fix it.”

It has created some challenges for colleges.

Professors have horror stories about parents who call to complain about their child’s grades.

Weigand remembers an upset mother who called UB because her son’s roommate was a slob.

“Can you have someone go clean his room?” she asked.

That’s an extreme case, Weigand said, although there’s definitely a subtle, but noticeable, bond between today’s students and parents.

The theme throughout the two-day parent orientations isn’t so much about letting go, Weigand said, as much as it is about letting students do for themselves.

“Our point is involvement is good, but we think the way that involvement looks changes, ” Weigand said. “You’re more of a coach or cheerleader now rather than someone who does everything for them. We want students to take responsibility for themselves.”

UB’s orientation covers a lot of ground.

Parents are surprised to learn they won’t have access to their kid’s grades, so the family may want to figure out a protocol.

Campus safety is a big topic. Parents always want to know more about what student health and counseling services are available.

There’s a conversation about alcohol and a straight-talk session, where staff leaves the room so moms and dads can question current UB students on what parents really want to know about college life.

Amana Carvalho, a clinical psychologist on the UB counseling staff, talked to an auditorium filled with parents about surviving the transition.

“UB welcomes your student with all the rights and responsibilities of an adult,” she said “Who feels they’re ready for that?”

Only a few parents raised hands.

Be ready, Carvalho told them, for the changes in their kids the next few years — new friends, different beliefs, different appearance.

But give them space to explore, she suggested. Resist lecturing, and pick your battles wisely.

Then, she told them, have a little faith in your parenting over the past 18 years.

“I’m not so much worried about the transition,” said William Machover, a UB alumnus from Long Island, whose daughter will attend in the fall. “I’m just worried that there’ll be a little too much partying — and not enough grades.”

Why can't parents just let go, the only time my parents came to my college campus was when I visited it in high school and then when I graduated.

If don't think your child is ready for all the rights and responsibilities of being an adult, then you failed as a parent. It was probably because you babied them too much, which is why you showed up to their college orientation.

[thatguyoverthere]

For the most part, it's the parent's money.

And what you see as parents refusing to let go, some others might see as parents being involved with their children's education. I rarely see people try and argue that parents should be less involved. It's their kid, it's their money.

There will always be examples of dumb, overprotective parents like the ones listed above, that doesn't mean that some other parents don't/won't have legitimate issues that should be addressed.

Plus, wouldn't you want someone to stand between the poor defenseless teenagers and the liberal socialist indoctrination centers that pose as colleges? If the parents shouldn't do it, who should? The government?

[JaJae]

I think my parents were at my college maybe twice as well. But it was on my invitation during a slow period. My mother can be extremely overbearing but I don't have a problem telling her no.

[7960]

Originally Posted by thatguyoverthere

For the most part, it's the parent's money.

And what you see as parents refusing to let go, some others might see as parents being involved with their children's education.

It's neither.

When I worked at the college, most parents dropped the kids off and left. I don't know if that was good or bad. But there were more than a few (more than you'd expect) who were way over the top. They visited every weekend, tried to get to know the kid's friends, brought them all sorts of shit they weren't supposed to have (including alcohol) and then complained when it was confiscated. I've got some funny (sad) stories, like the mom who had "I'm Cassy's Mom" airbrushed on a shirt and wore it to campus every time she came (probably 3x per week). There were too many stupid demands to keep track of.

In my experience the parents who want to "be involved" were invisible. But the ones that couldn't let go ...... they were a pain in the ass and their kids suffered for it.

Originally Posted by thatguyoverthere

Plus, wouldn't you want someone to stand between the poor defenseless teenagers and the liberal socialist indoctrination centers that pose as colleges?

Oh shut up.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by 7960

It's neither.

When I worked at the college, most parents dropped the kids off and left. I don't know if that was good or bad. But there were more than a few (more than you'd expect) who were way over the top. They visited every weekend, tried to get to know the kid's friends, brought them all sorts of shit they weren't supposed to have (including alcohol) and then complained when it was confiscated. I've got some funny (sad) stories, like the mom who had "I'm Cassy's Mom" airbrushed on a shirt and wore it to campus every time she came (probably 3x per week). There were too many stupid demands to keep track of.

In my experience the parents who want to "be involved" were invisible. But the ones that couldn't let go ...... they were a pain in the ass and their kids suffered for it.
Oh shut up.

My parents helped pay for my college and so I showed them my grades each semester and told them which classes I was taking and kept them in the loop as far as where I felt I stood each semester. I did that on my own because I felt obligated to let them know what their money was going to. But if my parents showed up at school univited looking for me to hang out, maybe the first time I'd entertain them. If it became the norm I'd just stop answering their phone calls. I never gave my parents the phone number to my room and never gave them my class schedule. As long as I was doing well in school I didn't feel it was any of their business.

[7960]

Originally Posted by JaJae

My parents helped pay for my college and so I showed them my grades each semester and told them which classes I was taking and kept them in the loop as far as where I felt I stood each semester. I did that on my own because I felt obligated to let them know what their money was going to. But if my parents showed up at school univited looking for me to hang out, maybe the first time I'd entertain them. If it became the norm I'd just stop answering their phone calls. I never gave my parents the phone number to my room and never gave them my class schedule. As long as I was doing well in school I didn't feel it was any of their business.

I kept my parents in the loop, too, even though they didn't pay.

My siblings and I were the first in my father's entire family to go to college so they were excited about me going. They let me know they'd love to come see the campus and show them where my classes were and stuff. I was happy to do it. But they weren't intrusive about it. They let me know and I found time and invited them. We had a blast...my dad was overjoyed that I actually (finally) went to college. It also kind of made me appreciate it a bit more than I might have otherwise.


cliffs: my parents were involved but I can't see how anyone would say they "couldn't let go." But I saw a bunch of kids whose parents inserted themselves into their kid's college experience, to the point of (IMO) ruining it.

[thatguyoverthere]

Originally Posted by 7960

It's neither.

When I worked at the college, most parents dropped the kids off and left. I don't know if that was good or bad. But there were more than a few (more than you'd expect) who were way over the top. They visited every weekend, tried to get to know the kid's friends, brought them all sorts of shit they weren't supposed to have (including alcohol) and then complained when it was confiscated. I've got some funny (sad) stories, like the mom who had "I'm Cassy's Mom" airbrushed on a shirt and wore it to campus every time she came (probably 3x per week). There were too many stupid demands to keep track of.

In my experience the parents who want to "be involved" were invisible. But the ones that couldn't let go ...... they were a pain in the ass and their kids suffered for it.

If the parents are paying for the college education, and the child is theirs, they have every right to be involved. If you, or the college, doesn't like it, tough.

Parents being involved in their children's education is a positive thing, and it should be encouraged at all levels.

It is the parent's responsibility to involve themselves in their children's education if they want their children educated effectively.

Originally Posted by 7960

Oh shut up.

So, I guess you'd rather the government come in and run interference between the student and the socialist indoctrination center? Or, perhaps you think that the youth of America should be taught to hate their country by long haired liberal ivy tower elites without any interference, input, or perspective provided by their own loving, caring parents who are also paying for that education?

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by thatguyoverthere

If the parents are paying for the college education, and the child is theirs, they have every right to be involved. If you, or the college, doesn't like it, tough.

Parents being involved in their children's education is a positive thing, and it should be encouraged at all levels.

It is the parent's responsibility to involve themselves in their children's education if they want their children educated effectively.

College students are not kids anymore, they are adults. Part of being an adult is taking responsibility for your own actions and college teaches that (in a somewhat easier manner than the "Real World"). This includes making some bad decisions and learning from your mistakes.

Overbearing parents that get involved in college hurt the education process because they are making the important decisions not the college student.

Colleges cope with 'helicopter parents'

Helicopter parents … a term coined for moms and dads who tend to hover over their kids -- isn't just an American thing.

Dennis Black, vice president of student affairs at the University at Buffalo, pointed out they're found in Scandinavia, too, but under a different moniker -- "curling parents."

It's in reference to the sport of curling, where players sweep the ice to remove obstacles in front of the gliding stone. Likewise, curling parents try to remove all the obstacles in the way of their children.

Of course, extreme helicopter parents, who go overboard to make sure no harm comes to their kids, get a special classification -- "Black Hawks," a name taken from the military helicopter.

Parents can always save their adult children from all the bad stuff in the world and it hurts their development if they do.

[7960]

Originally Posted by thatguyoverthere

If the parents are paying for the college education, and the child is theirs, they have every right to be involved. If you, or the college, doesn't like it, tough.

Parents being involved in their children's education is a positive thing, and it should be encouraged at all levels.

It is the parent's responsibility to involve themselves in their children's education if they want their children educated effectively.

You're making the mistake of thinking any or all involvement is positive. You think it's a good thing that a girl's mom had "I'm Cassy's Mom" airbrushed on a shirt she'd wear to campus? You don't find anything wrong with a kid coming back to his room and finding his dad having a beer with his roommates? You think it's healthy that more than once a kid was hanging out with me at the dorm's front desk because he was sick of his parents in his room, and it got to the point where he asked me to ask them to leave?

We're not talking about parents taking a healthy interest in their kid's education. We're talking about parents who can't let go.

So, I guess you'd rather the government come in and run interference between the student and the socialist indoctrination center? Or, perhaps you think that the youth of America should be taught to hate their country by long haired liberal ivy tower elites without any interference, input, or perspective provided by their own loving, caring parents who are also paying for that education?

You keep talking about "if the parents are paying the bill"........if they're paying the bill then they should have ALREADY figured out if it's a <bullshit> "socialist indoctrination center" or is full of <crap> "ivory tower elites." If they bring their kid and drop him off and follow him around to head that <shit> off then they already failed.

"Socialist indoctrination center"? Please.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by thatguyoverthere

Parents being involved in their children's education is a positive thing, and it should be encouraged at all levels.

It is the parent's responsibility to involve themselves in their children's education if they want their children educated effectively.

All true, except we are talking about college students, not children. At some point people need to become responsible adults. I think age 18 is a good bright line where parents limit their involvement to advice only and let the children start taking responsibility for the actions.

[thatguyoverthere]

Originally Posted by Phantom

All true, except we are talking about college students, not children. At some point people need to become responsible adults. I think age 18 is a good bright line where parents limit their involvement to advice only and let the children start taking responsibility for the actions.

If the students are paying their own way, then they can do whatever they want. But most parents pay through the nose to send their kids to college. If I was paying for the college education, and I wanted my teen to get the most out of it as possible and not drop out, I would want to be involved. Not only would I not want my money wasted, I would want my kid to get the most out of college. Sometimes teens are irresponsible, sometimes college is the first time away from home, and sometimes college students get other things on their minds other than their studies. It's the parent's money, it's the parent's kid, I believe they have every right to be as involved as they wish to be.

Let's be realistic. The problem is that the overwhelming majority of parents are not involved with their kid's education, college included. The examples of clingy parents cited above is the exception, not the rule. Complaining about parents that are too clingy is a piddly little complaint that pales in comparison to the real problem.

[7960]

Originally Posted by thatguyoverthere

If the students are paying their own way, then they can do whatever they want. But most parents pay through the nose to send their kids to college.

And they should be doing so with the knowledge that they're sending their ADULT child to college.

Sometimes teens are irresponsible, sometimes college is the first time away from home, and sometimes college students get other things on their minds other than their studies. It's the parent's money, it's the parent's kid, I believe they have every right to be as involved as they wish to be.

It's only the "as they wish to be" part that I have an issue with. Much of learning at college happens outside the classroom. If parents are *too* involved then they're going to shit all over that.

Let's be realistic. The problem is that the overwhelming majority of parents are not involved with their kid's education, college included. The examples of clingy parents cited above is the exception, not the rule. Complaining about parents that are too clingy is a piddly little complaint that pales in comparison to the real problem.

As the article said, and I agree with it, parents are becoming MORE clingy. Sure I want to see parents get more involved but in a healthy and helpful way.

[thatguyoverthere]

Originally Posted by 7960

You're making the mistake of thinking any or all involvement is positive. You think it's a good thing that a girl's mom had "I'm Cassy's Mom" airbrushed on a shirt she'd wear to campus? You don't find anything wrong with a kid coming back to his room and finding his dad having a beer with his roommates? You think it's healthy that more than once a kid was hanging out with me at the dorm's front desk because he was sick of his parents in his room, and it got to the point where he asked me to ask them to leave?

We're not talking about parents taking a healthy interest in their kid's education. We're talking about parents who can't let go.

So, if it's a mistake for me to think of ANY involvement as positive, then you must think that ALL involvement is negative. I don't claim all involvement is positive, but I do say that it's more positive than negative, to be sure. That's why parental involvement in their child's education should be encouraged and not discouraged, just as a general rule.

The parents who have an healthy interest in their kid's education and the parents who are ridiculously clingy are both small minorities. The majority of parents don't involve themselves with their kid's education, and that's a big reason why kids drop out of college or don't go to college at all.

The point is that complaining about clingy parents is a tiny, insignificant problem, and that as a general rule it is better to have parents involved than not involved, yes, even risking the chance that a small percentage of them would be ridiculously clingy.

You know anybody who dropped out of college because their parents were TOO supportive? IMO then you would have a better argument for why clingy parents are so terrible for college students other than embarrassing tee shirts or beer drinking dads.

The small minority of clingy parents is not a major problem. It's not even a problem when compared to the REAL problem of the majority of parents who don't involve themselves at all.

Originally Posted by 7960

You keep talking about "if the parents are paying the bill"........if they're paying the bill then they should have ALREADY figured out if it's a <bullshit> "socialist indoctrination center" or is full of <crap> "ivory tower elites." If they bring their kid and drop him off and follow him around to head that <shit> off then they already failed.

So, you DO have some standards for parental responsibility and for parents involving themselves in their child's college education?

While you may want to limit parental involvement there, parents should be able to go beyond that, if they are paying for the college education. I think parents should take more responsibility, not less.

Originally Posted by 7960

"Socialist indoctrination center"? Please.

I'm pulling your chain, relax.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by thatguyoverthere

You know anybody who dropped out of college because their parents were TOO supportive? IMO then you would have a better argument for why clingy parents are so terrible for college students other than embarrassing tee shirts or beer drinking dads.

You seem to assume dropping out of college is always a bad thing. When I was in school I saw too many cases of parents that used their money to push children into college when the kids were not ready or interested or pushed their kids to study things the kids were not interested in studying.

IMO, the most important thing anyone does at college is bridge the gap between childhood and responsible adulthood. Parental involvement prevents kids from becoming independent, self-sufficient actors.

Without the opportunity to make mistakes and learn, college kids will be totally unprepared to survive the working world.

[thatguyoverthere]

Originally Posted by 7960

And they should be doing so with the knowledge that they're sending their ADULT child to college.

So, because their kid is an adult, the parent should somehow magically not care if their money goes to waste? Because their kid is an adult, the kid won't sometimes need support? Because the kid is an adult, parents shouldn't want their kid to get the most possible out of their college education?

You're a realist. You're coming in here with a straight face and saying that an 18 year old, even though legally an adult, is therefore realistically mature and responsible enough for a parent to reasonably throw thousands of dollars of education at them and shouldn't be expected to want to know how their money is being spent?

Originally Posted by 7960

Much of learning at college happens outside the classroom. If parents are *too* involved then they're going to shit all over that.

Now that's funny!

What learning outside the classroom are the parents going to "shit all over?" Learning how to score with cheerleaders? Maybe if the beer drinking Dad was more involved with his kid, he and his roommates could learn all about the latest beer bong technology.

Originally Posted by 7960

Sure I want to see parents get more involved but in a healthy and helpful way.

Good. Then stop trying to discourage parents from being involved at all by making a minor nuisance out to be a major problem.

[7960]

Originally Posted by thatguyoverthere

So, if it's a mistake for me to think of ANY involvement as positive, then you must think that ALL involvement is negative. I don't claim all involvement is positive, but I do say that it's more positive than negative, to be sure. That's why parental involvement in their child's education should be encouraged and not discouraged, just as a general rule.

The parents who have an healthy interest in their kid's education and the parents who are ridiculously clingy are both small minorities.

but this article was specifically about the parents that aren't making the distinction and are not letting go.

You know anybody who dropped out of college because their parents were TOO supportive?

I do know people (including me) who dropped out because his parents were TOO overbearing. I guess the issue is where to draw the line between supportive and overbearing.

So, you DO have some standards for parental responsibility and for parents involving themselves in their child's college education?

Of course I do. I pointed out what they are in my first post.

I'm pulling your chain, relax.

[7960]

Originally Posted by thatguyoverthere

Now that's funny!

What learning outside the classroom are the parents going to "shit all over?" Learning how to score with cheerleaders? Maybe if the beer drinking Dad was more involved with his kid, he and his roommates could learn all about the latest beer bong technology.

Want me to tell you some stories? The airbrushed shirt lady was real. The beer drinking dad was real. The dad who went to frat parties because he thought it would be cool to hang out with his son was real. The mom who was banging one of her son's roommates was real. The mom who had to be removed from campus because she randomly showed up in her kid's class was real. The parents who I had to go ask to leave because their son asked me to get rid of them was real.......there are so many more.

Good. Then stop trying to discourage parents from being involved at all by making a minor nuisance out to be a major problem.

I'm not trying to discourage them. What I'm saying is I saw what that article is talking about and it's right, the parents that go *too*far* are becoming more and more common.

[thatguyoverthere]

Originally Posted by Phantom

You seem to assume dropping out of college is always a bad thing. When I was in school I saw too many cases of parents that used their money to push children into college when the kids were not ready or interested or pushed their kids to study things the kids were not interested in studying.

That's even more of an argument for parental involvement while the kids are in college, if the parent wants them to graduate.

Dropping out of college or not going isn't always a bad thing. But if I was a parent paying for my kids college education, I would want my kid to graduate. I would want to be involved as much as I could to ensure that they DID graduate.

Originally Posted by Phantom

IMO, the most important thing anyone does at college is bridge the gap between childhood and responsible adulthood. Parental involvement prevents kids from becoming independent, self-sufficient actors.

I think there's more to college than being out of the house. It would be cheaper and achieve the same result you describe to simply send your kid to another city for four years. A college degree tends to elevate one's income.

Originally Posted by Phantom

Without the opportunity to make mistakes and learn, college kids will be totally unprepared to survive the working world.

I wouldn't want to pay to send my kid to college simply so that they have a safe place to screw up. The kid can make mistakes out of college for a lot cheaper.

[7960]

Originally Posted by thatguyoverthere

.....if I was a parent paying for my kids college education, I would want my kid to graduate. I would want to be involved as much as I could to ensure that they DID graduate.

then I'm warning you........make sure you know how your kid defines "involved" v "overbearing" and don't cross the line.

.... college ...... a safe place to screw up.

Funny you word it that way because that's exactly what college is.

[thatguyoverthere]

Originally Posted by 7960

Want me to tell you some stories? The airbrushed shirt lady was real. The beer drinking dad was real. The dad who went to frat parties because he thought it would be cool to hang out with his son was real. The mom who was banging one of her son's roommates was real. The mom who had to be removed from campus because she randomly showed up in her kid's class was real. The parents who I had to go ask to leave because their son asked me to get rid of them was real.......there are so many more.

I don't doubt they're real, I just don't see where they're interfering with this "outside the classroom" learning that you described.

Hell, if Dad brings the beer and Mom brings the rubbers, I'd have to say the parents you describe above are positively contributing to classic college "outside the classroom" learning!

Originally Posted by 7960

I'm not trying to discourage them. What I'm saying is I saw what that article is talking about and it's right, the parents that go *too*far* are becoming more and more common.

It doesn't matter how common clingy parents are becoming, it's still a minor nuisance when compared to the major problem of parents who aren't involved at all.