Let's see if the blogs pick up on this

JaJae · 07-24-2008, 05:07 PM

A couple months ago the liberal blogs were complaining about Rep Tom Davis using the term "tar baby" when talking about an Obama political talking point.
Crooks and Liars » Rep Tom Davis Uses Term “Tar Baby” In GOP Memo

Today John Kerry used to term "tar baby" when talking about a McCain political talking point.
RedLasso - John Kerry Says 'Tar Baby'

What do you think about this? So far Crooks and Liars doesn't seem to mind, but do you think this will hurt John Kerry? I don't think it was used in a racist way and I don't think the conservative blogs should be making a fuss about this.

7960 · 07-24-2008, 05:17 PM

nobody will care that kerry used it because he's got a "D" after his name.

but then again someone got spanked for using the phrase "black hole" in reference to a govt office because a black guy thought it was racist so who knows.

FOXNews.com - Texas County Official Sees Race in Term 'Black Hole' - Politics | Republican Party | Democratic Party | Political Spectrum

Donkey® · 07-24-2008, 06:06 PM

Talk about a person and use the term, racist. Use the term as it should be used, not racist. Both Liberal and Conservative bloggers are responsible for using situations like these to make stupid commentary...so I really don't see how this is even an issue to discuss.

JaJae · 07-24-2008, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Talk about a person and use the term, racist. Use the term as it should be used, not racist. Both Liberal and Conservative bloggers are responsible for using situations like these to make stupid commentary...so I really don't see how this is even an issue to discuss.

Tom Davis is fairly unknown and he used the term tar baby as it should be used yet he was picked up by the blogs and some in the media for using the word. However, we now have Kerry using it in essentially the same exact way and there doesn't seem to much reaction so far. Both sides of the issue (liberal and conservative) blogs seem to want to have it both ways where their guy can do no wrong.

Donkey® · 07-25-2008, 01:16 AM

Originally Posted by JaJae

Tom Davis is fairly unknown and he used the term tar baby as it should be used yet he was picked up by the blogs and some in the media for using the word. However, we now have Kerry using it in essentially the same exact way and there doesn't seem to much reaction so far. Both sides of the issue (liberal and conservative) blogs seem to want to have it both ways where their guy can do no wrong.

I completely agree. Either side grabbing a hold of quotes and twisting them around to try and make someone look bad is part of the game though I suppose. It has no place in the "news" to begin with and I figure if we don't give them the attention they crave, they'd stop doing it eventually.

motivez · 08-03-2008, 03:38 PM

That video doesn't work.. can you post the complete context of both Davis' statement using it and Kerry's as well?

JaJae · 08-03-2008, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

That video doesn't work.. can you post the complete context of both Davis' statement using it and Kerry's as well?

Looks like the site is having problems. Here's a shorter clip of it.

YouTube - Barack Obama Surrogate John Kerry: "Tar...

They both used it in the same context.

David Octavius · 08-05-2008, 02:02 PM

I really dont care what bloggers have to say - they are a bunch of grown kids with personal agenda's (on both sides), I don't know why people take them seriously.

motivez · 08-05-2008, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by David Octavius

I really dont care what bloggers have to say - they are a bunch of grown kids with personal agenda's (on both sides), I don't know why people take them seriously.

Eh, "grown kids" .. Are you going to suggest they all live in their parents basements as well?

There are a lot of bloggers who provide better analysis than the mainstream issue, cover issues more in depth, and often cover issues the mainstream media would simply ignore

Glenn Greenwald is one of them for sure, you wont find a better, more in depth coverage of the FISA issue anywhere on the planet, IMO, and his analysis of many of the other issues he comments on is top shelf as well.

Scotusblog is a group of people that provide far better analysis of the Supreme Court than I've found anywhere else, and they link to people with their own sites that compliment their coverage

But there's many more than them. I've read a lot of good analysis of issues, new issues, etc on Daily Kos, Redstate, and plenty of others.

If you don't want to take them seriously, you're only hurting yourself by ensuring you don't have as much knowledge about an issue as possible. If you limit yourself to what the mainstream media deems important, you are letting them limit your knowledge.

David Octavius · 08-05-2008, 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

Eh, "grown kids" .. Are you going to suggest they all live in their parents basements as well?

There are a lot of bloggers who provide better analysis than the mainstream issue, cover issues more in depth, and often cover issues the mainstream media would simply ignore

Glenn Greenwald is one of them for sure, you wont find a better, more in depth coverage of the FISA issue anywhere on the planet, IMO, and his analysis of many of the other issues he comments on is top shelf as well.

Scotusblog is a group of people that provide far better analysis of the Supreme Court than I've found anywhere else, and they link to people with their own sites that compliment their coverage

But there's many more than them. I've read a lot of good analysis of issues, new issues, etc on Daily Kos, Redstate, and plenty of others.

If you don't want to take them seriously, you're only hurting yourself by ensuring you don't have as much knowledge about an issue as possible. If you limit yourself to what the mainstream media deems important, you are letting them limit your knowledge.

Where do I say I limit my news intake through the mainstream media? That assumption is silly. I actually use google news so I can get multiple news agencies as well as the international perspective - I don't need to go to bloggers to get "analysis" or alternative news, there are plenty of other sources out there (including books), to suggest that if I dont read bloggers hurts myself makes no sense at all.

motivez · 08-06-2008, 02:52 PM

You imply it by ridiculing "bloggers" in general, saying people not employed by mainstream media outlets who still provide analysis of the news shouldn't be taken seriously.

A lot of the stuff on Google News is rehashed AP / AFP / Reuters articles.. so a lot of the links they provide qualify as 'mainstream media' as well. It's good if you want to get the very latest news all in one spot, and I use it, but I wouldn't limit myself to the results their searches provide.

Also, books?

..I don't think there's going to be a book out by the time the 6pm news casts roll around on the days events, which is what we're really talking about here.

In contrast, the bloggers that do an amazing job, like Glenn Greenwald, Scotusblog and their affiliates, etc.. is completely original analysis and often provides insights the mainstream news agencies miss or avoid talking about. That goes for issues ignored by the mainstream media as well.

So, of course it makes sense that if you limit yourself to only certain outlets you are hurting yourself by contributing to a willful ignorance.

David Octavius · 08-06-2008, 03:44 PM

A lot of the stuff on Google News is rehashed AP / AFP / Reuters articles.. so a lot of the links they provide qualify as 'mainstream media' as well. It's good if you want to get the very latest news all in one spot, and I use it, but I wouldn't limit myself to the results their searches provide.

BBC.co.uk (and a host of other international news sites), Bloomberg, Newsweek, plus a plethora of smaller news sites no one has ever heard of but supply original insight...sorry Motivez but you are clearly speaking out of ignorance on this one

Also, books? ..I don't think there's going to be a book out by the time the 6pm news casts roll around on the days events, which is what we're really talking about here.

No what you are talking about is how ill-informed I am because I don't read blogs. The great thing about books, unlike a blog entry or a written article, is that it goes into much greater detail and analysis of events that transpired not to long ago. I get much greater insight from books then I ever do from reading a simple article.

In contrast, the bloggers that do an amazing job, like Glenn Greenwald, Scotusblog and their affiliates, etc.. is completely original analysis and often provides insights the mainstream news agencies miss or avoid talking about. That goes for issues ignored by the mainstream media as well.

I'm sure there are very good ones out there, there are also a lot of bad ones too. I should not of been so general in my original post, but I am also not wholly wrong either.

So, of course it makes sense that if you limit yourself to only certain outlets you are hurting yourself by contributing to a willful ignorance.

Your conclusion does not follow your evidence, many well informed people don't read blogs, to say different (with what you are implying) is extremely arrogant and wrong.

motivez · 08-06-2008, 06:37 PM

How about you provide some links to the "plethora of smaller news sites no one has ever heard of but supply original insight"? I'd like to see these. Sounds awfully similar to a blog

I'm not speaking out of ignorance, I use Google News and the BBC a lot, BBC news updates come packaged with Firefox, and Google News is handy to get the latest stories.

I'm not saying you're ill informed at all, I'm saying you're not as informed as you could be if you're unwilling to read any opinion or analysis unless it comes from one of the major media outlets.

Of course there's bad ones out there, I'm not saying in general that any Joe_Schmoe02342341 should be given the same credence as The Washington Post or New York Times, but to dismiss all of them as "children" who live in their parents basements or whatever is wrong, there are a lot of successful people who blog in their free time or have begun to make a living independent of any major outlet through their bloggings.. and there is a ton of great stuff out there, I listed a few as examples.

David Octavius · 08-08-2008, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by motivez

How about you provide some links to the "plethora of smaller news sites no one has ever heard of but supply original insight"? I'd like to see these. Sounds awfully similar to a blog

Not all small original news sites are blogs, I'm surprised you would even imply that

Many of the smaller ones I am talking about are local/regional news sites that normally are not nationally syndicated, hence unknown.

Nice to conveniently gloss over the international sources they have on there which we all know provides good analysis and better coverage than state side media. Also good job glossing over other sources that might be considered "main stream" but are very good like Newsweek.

Blogs are not the end all or be all, one can be very informed without it. That might change one day, but that day is not today.

motivez · 08-09-2008, 05:25 AM

I never said all small original news sites are blogs, only that it sounded awfully similar to the aim of many news blogs, which you've ridiculed.

I'm also not sure where you think I said that there aren't any good sources in the "mainstream" media? There are lots of good stateside publications, yes, like Newsweek, The Economist, NPR, and I often read international sources like the Haaretz, Jerusalem Post, the BBC,Telegraph, even english Al Jazeera.

I never suggested blogs were the end all or be all, only that by ignoring them you ignore a wealth of information and good analysis that you otherwise wouldn't get, because mainstream media outlets only have so many resources, and devote those resources to certain stories.

Bloggers who follow what's going on in their country, state, city, or town may decide to cover an entirely different aspect of a piece of news, or some piece of news that the mainstream sources decided not to pick up.

I'm still interested in seeing some of those links that you typically read though, so I can add them to my list of sites I routinely check if they're any good..