Reid plan splits Dems

[Rouger2]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Bush isn't up for re-election no matter how many parallels we can make with McCain. The Democrats need to get off the anti-Bush bandwagon if they want to win this election. It didn't win for them 4 years ago when Bush was running, it sure isn't gonna work for them now.

Yeah, they don't need to pick on Bush they just need to stay on and enlarge their attacks on Republicanism.

[Rouger2]

Originally Posted by JaJae

He's threatened to veto twice that when it came to spending bills in hopes of getting the numbers down. Before bills hit his desk he lets Congress know the magic number that if they go over he'll veto. He's shown numerous times that he's serious by vetoing the bills that go over. And Congress knows he's serious so they've tried to keep it under control. Even still, spending continues to increase with the Democratic Congress.

He's been very liberal with the use of the veto when bills don't meet his standards and he has been threatening vetos left and right forcing Congress to rework bills.

How long has he been doing the veto thing maybe a year, what a hypocrite.

[JaJae]

So Nancy Pelosi released her new book. Needless to say it completely bombed. It's currently ranked #1,569 on its opening release. It currently has an average of one star among its 193 customer reviews. Only 9 people rated it above average and 179 gave it only one star. Biggest complaint of her book is that it is a "hollow advertising brochure."

Congress's approval rating is very low and I've heard many explanations as to why and most of them refer to Bush and the GOP obstructionism. But I think this puts everything into a different perspective. She is leading the party astray and all the Democrats in positions of high power are similar to her.

Also, Charles Krauthammer points out in his latest article that if Pelosi is so intent on saving the planet as she claims she would want the US to drill oil rather than allow these third world nations do such a botched job of it and ruin our planet in the process. He goes on to say the US has the best technology and the safest regulations when it comes to pumping oil. By allowing these other nations to pump our oil she is damaging the environment moreso than US drilling.

[JaJae]

Even Californians now are getting antsy with Pelosi it seems.

For weeks, pressure has been mounting in Congress to approve more domestic oil drilling, but House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has held the line, using her power to block a vote on offshore drilling.

President Bush has made almost daily calls for Democratic leaders to take action. House GOP leaders, citing a new poll showing that a slim majority of Californians now favor offshore drilling, issued a release Thursday saying "even (Pelosi's) own California neighbors oppose her efforts to block new drilling far off American coasts." GOP lawmakers are so disgruntled they're urging Bush to deny Congress its August break by calling a special session on energy.

Even some Democrats are getting antsy, fearing the party's stance could hurt them in the fall elections. But Pelosi, who has opposed offshore drilling throughout her two decades in Congress, insists opening new areas to drilling won't lower gas prices in the short term. She believes a vote would only help the GOP blame Democrats for high gas prices.

And the consequences to the upcoming election are eminent.

Republicans are quietly gleeful at Pelosi's tactics, which have only breathed more life into an issue the GOP is clinging to as a lifeline in an otherwise grim year for the party. Some House Republicans said Thursday that they will ask Bush to order a special session of Congress in August if lawmakers adjourn this week, as expected, without voting on drilling.

While a special session is unlikely, House Minority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, made clear that his party plans to use the issue as a bludgeon against Democrats throughout the five-week August recess.

"A solid majority of Americans want us to have more drilling for more American-made energy, and they aren't going to take no for an answer," Boehner said Thursday. "Speaker Pelosi, Senators (Harry) Reid and (Barack) Obama are defying the will of the American people, and they're doing so at their own risk."

Energy prices are going to be a major issue for the upcoming election and the GOP has already said they plan on focusing on it. Pelosi could very well throw seats in November to GOP candidates by dragging this out. Politicians can explain away a vote and move on, but if she keeps this going through the summer and the GOP keeps it going through the fall, the Democrats won't come out looking too good on this issue. The American public disagrees with Pelosi. Eventually something is gonna have to give, either the blue dog Democrats will be fearful of crossing Pelosi or they'll have to go on the offense against her to save their own seats. That disunity would also hurt the party come November. No matter what this is going to be a lose-lose for the Democrats. It really is in the best interest of their party to allow the vote to happen without dragging it on for months in the media spotlight.

Pelosi has been holding votes on measures aimed at addressing gas prices, such as legislation to crack down on speculators in energy commodity markets and a measure to force Bush to release oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. But here's the catch: The bills have won majority support, but failed to get the two-thirds backing needed to pass under special rules Pelosi has used to keep Republicans from offering a drilling measure on the House floor. Democratic leaders fear such a measure might draw enough support to pass.

The issue is likely to heat up again this fall. Republicans are debating whether to shut down the federal government - by blocking a continuing resolution to keep the government funded beyond Sept. 30 - if Democrats don't allow a vote on offshore drilling.

70% of Americans want to drill. Most House politicians want to vote in favor of it (whether they'll cross Pelosi is another thing). She really is acting like a tyrant here holding our government hostage for her own political agenda. It will be interesting to see what happens.

[AVengeance]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

As I understand it, we already have millions of acres of land approved for drilling which the oil companies have not yet begun to explore. It seems like we would just be adding imaginary capacity. They havn't even utilized all of the land that they can already drill on... if we grant access to more land what will happen? It seems symbolic to me. Oh lets open more land for drilling. It won't help anything. Why even bother doing it? Political Theatre?

If that's true, why aren't the oil companies drilling there? I haven't heard anything from any of the oil companies saying they're allowed to drill in profitable areas that they're just not drilling in. Seems to me if I was going into caves and digging out diamonds, and the government told me I could go into another cave also and dig out diamonds, I'd be doing it... unless my geologists are telling me there aren't any diamonds in that other cave.

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by AVengeance

If that's true, why aren't the oil companies drilling there? I haven't heard anything from any of the oil companies saying they're allowed to drill in profitable areas that they're just not drilling in. Seems to me if I was going into caves and digging out diamonds, and the government told me I could go into another cave also and dig out diamonds, I'd be doing it... unless my geologists are telling me there aren't any diamonds in that other cave.

I have no idea. From an oil companies perspective though, the more land it has available to it, the greater the chance is that it will be profitable over the long term.

[JaJae]

Pelosi has shut down the House on the GOP and they are debating energy in the dark. Pelosi turned off all TV cameras, lights, etc and the Republicans are still discussing energy proposals in the dark.

QIK | Streaming video right from your phone

Rep. Tom Cole (Okla.), chairman of the National Republican Congressional Committee, said the dimly lit chamber is a “vision of the future by the Democrat Party: The lights are out, there’s no power, and the air conditioning is gonna go off soon.”

The Democratic leadership doesn't want to discuss energy. They want to sit by and allow the problem to compound itself.

[JaJae]

Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and the Democrats adjourned the House and turned off the lights and killed the microphones, but Republicans are still on the floor talking gas prices.

Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) and other GOP leaders opposed the motion to adjourn the House, arguing that Pelosi’s refusal to schedule a vote allowing offshore drilling is hurting the American economy. They have refused to leave the floor after the adjournment motion passed at 11:23 a.m. and are busy bashing Pelosi and her fellow Democrats for leaving town for the August recess…

“This is the people’s House,” Rep, Thaddeus McCotter (R-Mich.) said. “This is not Pelosi’s politiburo.”

Democratic aides were furious at the GOP stunt, and reporters were kicked out of the Speaker’s Lobby, the space next to the House floor where they normally interview lawmakers.

“You’re not covering this, are you?” complaing one senior Democratic aide. Another called the Republicans “morons” for staying on the floor…

The scene on the floor is kind of crazy. Normally, members are not allowed to speak directly to the visitor galleries, or visitors are prohibited from cheering. But in this case, the members are walking up and down on the floor during their speeches, standing on cheers, the visitors are cheering loudly. Some members even brought in visitors, who are now sitting on the House floor in the seats normally filled by lawmakers, cheering and clapping. Very funny.

The Crypt: House Dems turn out the lights but GOP keeps talking - Politico.com

Politico is on site and they are quickly reporting what is happening since the Democrats have turned off the power to prevent television cameras from capturing the discussions and sending it to the American public.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Update 1

The Capitol Police are now trying to kick reporters out of the press gallery above the floor, meaning we can't watch the Republicans anymore. But Minority Whip Roy Blunt (R-Mo.) is now in the gallery talking to reporters, so the cops have held off for a minute. Clearly, Democrats don't want Republicans getting any press for this episode. GOP leaders are trying to find other Republicans to rotate in for Blunt so reporters aren't kicked out.

Originally Posted by Update 2

"Although this Democrat majority just adjourned for the Democrat 5-week vacation, House Republicans are continuing to fight on the House floor. Although the lights, mics and C-SPAN cameras have been turned off, House Republicans are on the floor speaking to the taxpayers in the gallery who, not surprisingly, agree with Republican energy proposals.

"All Republicans who are in town are encouraged to come to the House floor."

Originally Posted by Update 3

Democrats just turned out the lights again. Republicans cheered.

Originally Posted by Update 4

Republican leaders just sent out a notice looking for a bullhorn, and leadership aides are trying to corral all the members who are still in town to come speak on the floor and sustain this one-sided debate.

Also, Republicans can thank Shadegg for turning on the microphones the first time. Apparently, the fiesty Arizona conservative started typing random codes into the chamber's public address system and accidentally typed the correct code, allowing Republicans brief access to the microphone before it was turned off again.

"I love this," Shadegg told reporters up in the press gallery afterward. "Congress can be so boring. ... This is a kick."

What a spectacle.

[JaJae]

Update 4: The scene on the floor is kind of crazy. Normally, members are not allowed to speak directly to the visitor galleries, and visitors are prohibited from cheering. But in this case, the members are walking up and down on the floor during their speeches, standing on chairs. The visitors are cheering loudly. Some members even brought in visitors, who are now sitting on the House floor in the seats normally filled by lawmakers, cheering and clapping. Very funny.

Democrats faced a choice here: Should they leave the cameras on and let Republicans rip Pelosi & Co. on C-SPAN, or should they leave the cameras off and let the Republicans have their "tantrum," as one Democratic aide characterized it, with the cameras off? So the cameras are off, but Republicans, and the crowd, are clearly enjoying the scene.

Update 5: Republicans are literally hugging each other on the House floor. Rep. Don Manzullo (R-Ill.), not normally known as a distinguished orator, just gave a rousing speech, accusing Democrats of stifling dissent. He referenced President John Quincy Adams, who returned as a House member after being defeated in his bid for presidential reelection. Waving his arms and yelling, Manzullo brought the crowd (including a lot of staff shipped in by GOP leaders to fill up the place), and he left the floor to hugs from his colleagues. You don't see that up here every day.

Update 6: Rep Devin Nunes (R-Calif.) just pretended to be a Democrat. He stood on the other side of the chamber and listed all of the GOP bills that the Dems killed.

He then said, "I am a Democrat, and here is my energy plan" and he held up a picture of an old VW Bug with a sail attached to it. He paraded around the House floor with the sign while the crowd cheered.

Out of control.

[JaJae]

Here are the latest updates on the continuing GOP protest on the House floor:

The House adjourned about three hours ago, but GOP lawmakers — outraged that Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and the Democrats went home for five weeks without allowing a vote on offshore drilling — have refused to leave the floor. Even though C-SPAN can't show you what's going on (C-SPAN is prevented from showing what's happening on the floor when the House is out of session), Republicans are holding an unprecedented session on the House floor. They have brought in dozens of their members, who are walking up and down the aisles making speeches. They have packed the floors and galleries with staffers. When Capitol Police tried to remove reporters from the gallery, Republicans stopped it from happening. The crowd has repeatedly broken out in chants of "Vote, vote, vote!" There are several dozen Cub Scouts sitting on the House floor in seats normally occupied by members.

Update: A GOP staffer just informed me that post-adjournment protests by the minority party are not unprecedented. The Democrats did it back in 1995, when the Republicans were in control. Democrats placed a big photo in the speaker's chair of then-Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.) wearing a diaper. Republicans note they are being more respectful this time.

Rep. Kevin Brady (R-Texas), who was on a plane headed home, went back to the Capitol, walking on to the floor dragging his luggage. He got a standing ovation.

Rep. John Shadegg (R-Ariz.) called it a "new Boston Tea Party!"

Rep. Mike Pence (R-Ind.) said he was "not leaving until we call this Congress back into session and vote for energy independence."

Rep. Tom Cole (Okla.), chairman of the National Republican Congressional Committee, said the dimly lit chamber is a "vision of the future by the Democrat Party: The lights are out, there's no power, and the air conditioning is gonna go off soon."

This is hilarious.

[JaJae]

No shirt? No tie? No problem.

Michigan Republican Mike Rogers returned to the House floor in shorts and sandals to take his turn at the podium, as the Republican talkathon continues on the House floor, hours after the chamber formally recessed for the week.

Looking like he was ready for the links in a pair of cargo shorts and a short-sleeve shirt, Rogers said he was preparing to drive back to Michigan when he pulled a U-turn and headed back into town.

"I had gotten in my car to drive home and I realized I didn't have enough money to pay for the first tank of gas," said Rogers.

Republican Rep. Rob Bishop of Utah was also spotted on the House floor in shorts and sandals.

Rep. Kevin Brady returned to thunderous applause when it was announced he had gotten off of a plane right before takeoff in order to deliver a speech. He said the day had turned things completely upside down.

"Normally they clap when I am leaving here with my bags packed," he said with a laugh. "Not the other way around."

As of 3:30, the speeches continued, with no sign of letting up.

Looks like the Republicans are serious about wanting that vote and they're pretty pissed off Pelosi would do what she's doing. I say good for them. It's about time a party showed they were really passionate about something and were willing to stand up for something. I'm sure the media will paint the GOP as wackos, but I think this will help them come election time. The more of a scene they make the more the Democrats will seem uncaring about energy costs.

[JaJae]

BARACK OBAMA WILLING TO SUPPORT AN ENERGY COMPROMISE

Obama shifts, says he may back offshore drilling

ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. - Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said Friday he would be willing to support limited additional offshore oil drilling if that's what it takes to enact a comprehensive policy to foster fuel-efficient autos and develop alternate energy sources.

Shifting from his previous opposition to expanded offshore drilling, the Illinois senator told a Florida newspaper he could get behind a compromise with Republicans and oil companies to prevent gridlock over energy…

“My interest is in making sure we’ve got the kind of comprehensive energy policy that can bring down gas prices,” Obama said in an interview with The Palm Beach Post.

“If, in order to get that passed, we have to compromise in terms of a careful, well thought-out drilling strategy that was carefully circumscribed to avoid significant environmental damage — I don’t want to be so rigid that we can’t get something done.”

Obama shifts, says he may back offshore drilling - Yahoo! News

With Obama leading the way with a vocal support of a compromise I'm sure many other Democrats who have been dying to get on board with a compromise to save their shirts this November will speak up as well.

Looks like Nancy may end up loosing this fight.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by JaJae

It's about time a party showed they were really passionate about something and were willing to stand up for something.

They are quite passionate about the millions of dollars they receive from the oil companies.

[Rouger2]

The republicans have said that allowing oil to be drilled off shore, where it is prohibited, will cause prices to go down since there will be more oil for gasoline. Oil that cannot be on the market for ten years is not going to do a dam thing about bringing down prices for many years. Mean while we can work on wind power and what about growing sugar cane in the south east, and making gas out of it. Making gas from corn is a losing propositon, not only that it is stupid.

[motivez]

I think if they aren't using the areas we've given them access to already, what's the point in giving them more? Seems more like a political move to play on people's frustration with the current high prices than any kind of real solution being proposed by the Republicans IMO..

Like that thread posted awhile back, stuff from ANWR would change it so little per barrel that we wouldn't notice a price difference. I mean, we've seen what, a $10-15 drop in prices per barrel recently and it's only started coming down a few cents around here, 10 years from now is when we'd start to see that oil, and if it dropped it 1 cent at the pumps we'd be lucky

As far as off shore stuff, I mean, we should be developing our resources in areas that aren't protected wildlife reserves, especially if it's so far out that it doesn't pose a risk to the coast states tourism economies, but I still don't think this is any kind of real proposal

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by motivez

I think if they aren't using the areas we've given them access to already, what's the point in giving them more? Seems more like a political move to play on people's frustration with the current high prices than any kind of real solution being proposed by the Republicans IMO..

Like that thread posted awhile back, stuff from ANWR would change it so little per barrel that we wouldn't notice a price difference. I mean, we've seen what, a $10-15 drop in prices per barrel recently and it's only started coming down a few cents around here, 10 years from now is when we'd start to see that oil, and if it dropped it 1 cent at the pumps we'd be lucky

As far as off shore stuff, I mean, we should be developing our resources in areas that aren't protected wildlife reserves, especially if it's so far out that it doesn't pose a risk to the coast states tourism economies, but I still don't think this is any kind of real proposal

Thats a common misconception being touted by the democrats. Oil companies weren't "given" anything, they paid huge sums of money for rights to explore and drill on the land. Another common misconception is that oil companies could even do anything with it once its there. There's been several instances where companies have successfully explored and FOUND oil on federal lands. But the leases the government granted ONLY gave permission to explore and forbids them from producing the oil and gas they found, which makes the entire process a HUGE waste of time and money. At 65,000 dollars a day (the current going rate for a drilling rig) why would they waste time when there's a long history of the government blocking them from producing oil being held in current leases?

Google "Destin Dome" this a great example of what I'm talking about. Chevron paid huge money for a lease in federal waters in the 1980s. Found a lot of oil and gas, started to produce it and the government threw a fit saying their leases do not give them permission to produce only to explore. It went to court and Chevron lost, setting the stage for several similar fiascos.

Furthermore, a lot of the leases they purchased, they did explore and found that there was either no oil and gas or very little and it was not cost effective or environmentally friendly to drill for small amounts of oil and gas that may be contained within the bounds of the leasehold in question. Why would anyone waste money trying to get oil where there isn't any? or where you wont be allowed to produce it to begin with?

Drilling ANWR and drilling the OCS would have a substantial effect on prices and you can use nat gas as a specific example of how and why it would affect prices. The US currently pays about half what the rest of the world pays for natural gas, why? Because we provide most of our own gas. Also, the democrats conveniently placed a moratorium on shale drilling/exploration in the rockies.


And as for prices falling with oil, prices didn't go up with the price of oil so they're not going to fall in lock step with the price of oil, but prices are down, the national average is down 22 cents and its down about 40 cents here as of yesterday.

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by Rouger2

The republicans have said that allowing oil to be drilled off shore, where it is prohibited, will cause prices to go down since there will be more oil for gasoline. Oil that cannot be on the market for ten years is not going to do a dam thing about bringing down prices for many years. Mean while we can work on wind power and what about growing sugar cane in the south east, and making gas out of it. Making gas from wheat is a losing propositon, not only that it is stupid.

Oil prices will be affected immediately because oil prices are based