Do they really think the earth is flat?

[Schrödinger's Cat]

In the 21st Century, the term "flat-earther" is used to describe someone who is spectacularly - and seemingly wilfully - ignorant. But there is a group of people who claim they believe the planet really is flat. Are they really out there or is it all an elaborate prank?

Nasa is celebrating its 50th birthday with much fanfare and pictures of past glories. But in half a century of extraordinary images of space, one stands out.

On 24 December 1968, the crew of the Apollo 8 mission took a photo now known as Earthrise. To many, this beautiful blue sphere viewed from the moon's orbit is a perfect visual summary of why it is right to strive to go into space.

Not to everybody though. There are people who say they think this image is fake - part of a worldwide conspiracy by space agencies, governments and scientists.

Welcome to the world of the flat-earther.

Our attitude towards those who once upon a time believed in the flatness of the earth is apparent in a new Microsoft advert.

Depicting an olden-days ship sailing on rough seas, presumably heading towards the "edge of the world", the advert is part of a $300m campaign aimed at rescuing the reputation of Windows Vista by comparing its critics to flat-earthers.

Satellite era

But are there any genuine flat-earthers left? Surely in our era of space exploration - where satellites take photos of our blue and clearly globular planet from space, and robots send back info about soil and water from Mars - no one can seriously still believe that the Earth is flat?

Wrong.

Flat earth theory is still around. On the internet and in small meeting rooms in Britain and the US, flat earth believers get together to challenge the "conspiracy" that the Earth is round.

"People are definitely prejudiced against flat-earthers," says John Davis, a flat earth theorist based in Tennessee, reacting to the new Microsoft commercial.

"Many use the term 'flat-earther' as a term of abuse, and with connotations that imply blind faith, ignorance or even anti-intellectualism."

Mr Davis, a 25-year-old computer scientist originally from Canada, first became interested in flat earth theory after "coming across some literature from the Flat Earth Society a few years ago".

"I came to realise how much we take at face value," he says. "We humans seem to be pleased with just accepting what we are told, no matter how much it goes against our senses."

Mr Davis now believes "the Earth is flat and horizontally infinite - it stretches horizontally forever".

"And it is at least 9,000 kilometres deep", he adds.

James McIntyre, a British-based moderator of a Flat Earth Society discussion website, has a slightly different take. "The Earth is, more or less, a disc," he states. "Obviously it isn't perfectly flat thanks to geological phenomena like hills and valleys. It is around 24,900 miles in diameter."

Mr McIntyre, who describes himself as having been "raised a globularist in the British state school system", says the reactions of his friends and family to his new beliefs vary from "sheer incredulity to the conviction that it's all just an elaborate joke".

So how many flat-earthers are around today? Neither Mr Davis nor Mr McIntyre can say.

Continued: BBC NEWS | UK | Magazine | Do they really think the earth is flat?

Not surprising considering that many of Americans still believe the universe is no more than 10k years old. A flat Earth is still in the ball park if you believe that hokum.


"Many use the term 'flat-earther' as a term of abuse, and with connotations that imply blind faith, ignorance or even anti-intellectualism."

And rightly so!

[thatguyoverthere]

The willful ignorance demonstrated by global warming deniers shows me that there is no limit to people believing scientifically unsupported things, so I can certainly accept the possibility that they actually do think the earth is flat.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Originally Posted by thatguyoverthere

The willful ignorance demonstrated by global warming deniers shows me that there is no limit to people believing scientifically unsupported things, so I can certainly accept the possibility that they actually do think the earth is flat.

Some people are either ignorant of the evidence or simply deny it when it's under their noses. The former type can be educated as to the science involved, but the latter is a group of people that I hold no hope for. Just look at all the people that deny evolution, the orbit of the planets, or the big bang, to name just a few. I just have to come to the conclusion that they refuse to think. The numbers of people that not only disbelieve established science but also believe in astrology, the paranormal, alchemy, folk superstitions, or the supernatural (sometimes all of the above) are shocking (e.g., Paranormal Beliefs Come (Super)Naturally to Some).

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by Schrödinger's Cat

Some people are either ignorant of the evidence or simply deny it when it's under their noses. The former type can be educated as to the science involved, but the latter is a group of people that I hold no hope for. Just look at all the people that deny evolution, the orbit of the planets, or the big bang, to name just a few. I just have to come to the conclusion that they refuse to think. The numbers of people that not only disbelieve established science but also believe in astrology, the paranormal, alchemy, folk superstitions, or the supernatural (sometimes all of the above) are shocking (e.g., Paranormal Beliefs Come (Super)Naturally to Some).

There was a recent study done and it seems people tend to forget the origin of information given enough time. They simply remember that they heard some fact somewhere, and they file it away in thier brans as truth. People also tend, when given to conflicting bits of data, to accept the bit of data that agrees with thier preconceived ideas or opinions. So it seems that there is actually empiracle data that shows people willfully ignore facts that don't agree with thier opinion and remember whatever they want to remember, even if the source is not trustworthy, as they will eventually forget the source anyway.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

People don't have to know everything or even remember everything, but they can at least know where and how to get the information. To not even try to review the evidence for or against a scientific theory is just intellectual laziness. We also have a problem with education in our country. Children need to be immersed in science at a young age. I agree with Planck on this point:

"Eine neue wissenschaftliche Wahrheit pflegt sich nicht in der Weise durchzusetzen, daß ihre Gegner überzeugt werden und sich als belehrt erklären, sondern vielmehr dadurch, daß ihre Gegner allmählich aussterben und daß die heranwachsende Generation von vornherein mit der Wahrheit vertraut geworden ist."

(A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.)

- Max Planck

[motivez]

I was reading this article last night, it's really interesting to think that there's people who actually, in the face of the overwhelming proof, still refuse to believe that the Earth is a globe..

I mean, I guess until there's some way to independently verify it (ie: space tourism), these people still have an excuse.. after all, the government has covered up some pretty nasty stuff, but the vastness of the conspiracy that would be required makes it completely impossible, IMO.. not to mention I can't think of any decent reason for lying about the shape of the Earth..

[Photon1001]

This guy thinks so.

Iraqi debate about the shape of the earth - Snotr

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Originally Posted by Photon1001

This guy thinks so.

Iraqi debate about the shape of the earth - Snotr

Yeah, Muslim nations also have problems with creationists preaching things that we have shown to be completely wrong. Even in "modern" Turkey, you have a high court ruling on the side of a creationist to ban Richard Dawkins' website in that country. What is sad is that people in the US (supposedly the greatest nation on earth) are saying things just as crazy as a flat earth and are taken seriously, go on Fox News, and even become elected to public offices.

[HughRuss]

Originally Posted by Schrödinger's Cat

Yeah, Muslim nations also have problems with creationists preaching things that we have shown to be completely wrong. Even in "modern" Turkey, you have a high court ruling on the side of a creationist to ban Richard Dawkins' website in that country. What is sad is that people in the US (supposedly the greatest nation on earth) are saying things just as crazy as a flat earth and are taken seriously, go on Fox News, and even become elected to public offices.

Yeah, I hear there's a governor in Alaska with some pretty back-ass-wards opinions.

[Kytro]

Originally Posted by Schrödinger's Cat

Yeah, Muslim nations also have problems with creationists preaching things that we have shown to be completely wrong. Even in "modern" Turkey, you have a high court ruling on the side of a creationist to ban Richard Dawkins' website in that country. What is sad is that people in the US (supposedly the greatest nation on earth) are saying things just as crazy as a flat earth and are taken seriously, go on Fox News, and even become elected to public offices.

To be fair it was not blocked because of religious content, at least officially. It was blocked because it was claimed it contained "libellous comments". The same guy tried to ban the Dawkins' book for insulting religion, but that case was thrown out.

The Turkish Courts tend to be fairly secular.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Originally Posted by Kytro

To be fair it was not blocked because of religious content, at least officially. It was blocked because it was claimed it contained "libellous comments". The same guy tried to ban the Dawkins' book for insulting religion, but that case was thrown out.

The Turkish Courts tend to be fairly secular.

Oktar claimed he and his book 'Atlas of Creation' were defamed. Of course in a free country, if you write something completely stupid in a book, people will call you on it.

What Dawkins said was: "I am at a loss to reconcile the expensive and glossy production values of this book with the breathtaking inanity of the content..."

[Photon1001]

Yes, that Dawkins was a smart one, and thank God for that. There is a universe where the earth really is flat and created in 6 days, 6000 years ago, but what these yahoos fail to realize, its not the universe we live in.

[Heres Johnny]

Yes, and John Mcain has been to all four corners.

[HughRuss]

Originally Posted by Kytro

To be fair it was not blocked because of religious content, at least officially. It was blocked because it was claimed it contained "libellous comments". The same guy tried to ban the Dawkins' book for insulting religion, but that case was thrown out.

The Turkish Courts tend to be fairly secular.

Dawkins' "The God Delusion" should be blocked because of its lame, cardhouse defense of atheism.
It's almost as if he wants to be proven wrong. (Somebody later wrote a book refuting every one of his points in half the amount of pages).

[Photon1001]

hehe, yes, I think he's quite the comedian.. Perhaps he thinks it helps his cause?

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Originally Posted by HughRuss

Dawkins' "The God Delusion" should be blocked because of its lame, cardhouse defense of atheism.
It's almost as if he wants to be proven wrong. (Somebody later wrote a book refuting every one of his points in half the amount of pages).

Care to lay out his points and why you disagree with them (in another thread)? I think it will be interesting.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by Schrödinger's Cat

Care to lay out his points and why you disagree with them (in another thread)? I think it will be interesting.

I would like to see this as well.

[Photon1001]

I'd like to know what that other book was.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Originally Posted by Photon1001

I'd like to know what that other book was.

There are so many "fleas". You can pick one and read the opposing view.
'Two new fleas are discovered!' by RichardDawkins.net - RichardDawkins.net

[HughRuss]

Originally Posted by Schrödinger's Cat

Care to lay out his points