these "change the world" people are really pissing me off

7960 · 09-22-2006, 02:40 PM

I'm all for a good idea. I wouldn't back down from a worthy fight. But I'm really getting sick of people who won't do anything unless it saves the world.

ex: talking about de-clawing cats. Someone said it should be done and it's necessary because (gave her reasons). I say it's inhumane and should never be done because (gave my reasons). A third person comes in and says "the real issue is how we treat animals. I think we need to get people to stop enslaving animals and keeping them for our own pleasure. Keeping a dog or cat or fish blah balh bhal......"

WTF. We went from "do/don't de-claw cats" to "the entire world needs to re-think keeping pets."

ex: talking about voting. I said we should require IDs because (gave my reasons). Someone else said we should not because (gave his reasons). A third person comes in and says "really we need to get rid of the political party system as we have it. Requiring an ID doesn't stop corporate corruption and lobbyists and blah bahl balh......"

WTF. We went from "ID/no ID" to "throw out the govt and start again."

ex: talking about sexes and gay/straight in the military. I said one thing because (gave my reasons). Someone said another thing because (gave his reasons). A third person comes in and says "society needs to change to the point where men and women can shower together. We should have unisex bathrooms and recognize a naked body does not equal sexuality. Everyone should blah bahl balh......"

WTF. I don't even know how we got there.

I just don't understand the mentality that says "Voting problem? Change 300M people or don't do anything. Military problem? Change the entire country or don't do anything. Cat de-claw problem? Change the entire PLANET or don't do anything."

Christ these people piss me off. They're so stuck on...whatever it is they're stuck on...that they'd rather adopt a completely impossible position and do absolutely nothing than work toward what would most like help affect a positive change.

Ardentfrost · 09-22-2006, 03:00 PM

Learn to tell people they're off topic

lew · 09-22-2006, 03:12 PM

7960, I understand your frustration. What we need to do is tell everyone this, and change everyone to make them see that they don't need to sprout off such bullshit.

Scrum · 09-22-2006, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by lew

7960, I understand your frustration. What we need to do is tell everyone this, and change everyone to make them see that they don't need to sprout off such bullshit.

Ironic that you say this and yet your answer to most things are "get rid of public schools, eliminate all government regulation of industry, and eliminate taxes on everyone".

Ardentfrost · 09-22-2006, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

Ironic that you say this and yet your answer to most things are "get rid of public schools, eliminate all government regulation of industry, and eliminate taxes on everyone".

bah, when the thread is about how bad public schools are, of course libertarians are going to say "get rid of public schools." And if someone says they're good, we'll provide evidence of them NOT being good and then say to get rid of them.

That's not a change of subject or an extreme solution, it's a solution that everyone thinks is extreme.

lew · 09-22-2006, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

Ironic that you say this and yet your answer to most things are "get rid of public schools, eliminate all government regulation of industry, and eliminate taxes on everyone".

I say this when that's the topic at hand, I don't bring that out of nowhere.

And my post was ironic in light of the thread. Did you not get that?

Scrum · 09-22-2006, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by lew

Did you not get that?

No

7960 · 09-22-2006, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Learn to tell people they're off topic

In my experience they won't hear it. They continue to say "well the real issue is......." and either ignore that they're so far off the fucking deep end that there's no use trying to save them. Usually I say something to piss them off and then ignore them from then on.

If I'm talking about gas mileage and how the govt should mandate cars should get 30mpg and someone comes along and says "Actually we need to rethink automobiles in general and have more mass transit and bike riding and less cars. I think cars should come with a $10k tax and the govt should install black boxes in all heavy trucks to make sure they're only used for work and blah blah blah......." then exactly how much good was that post? Absolutely zero, that's how much. The issue is mileage, cars are not going away, (hopefully) the govt is not in the business of monitoring my daily use of my car to determine if it's "worthy" of gas. To say "we need to get rid of cars" is a waste because it's not going to happen. For someone to propose it means he's not rational so telling him "you're off topic" doesn't do shit.

IminWonderland · 09-22-2006, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

I'm all for a good idea. I wouldn't back down from a worthy fight. But I'm really getting sick of people who won't do anything unless it saves the world.

ex: talking about de-clawing cats. Someone said it should be done and it's necessary because (gave her reasons). I say it's inhumane and should never be done because (gave my reasons). A third person comes in and says "the real issue is how we treat animals. I think we need to get people to stop enslaving animals and keeping them for our own pleasure. Keeping a dog or cat or fish blah balh bhal......"

WTF. We went from "do/don't de-claw cats" to "the entire world needs to re-think keeping pets."

ex: talking about voting. I said we should require IDs because (gave my reasons). Someone else said we should not because (gave his reasons). A third person comes in and says "really we need to get rid of the political party system as we have it. Requiring an ID doesn't stop corporate corruption and lobbyists and blah bahl balh......"

WTF. We went from "ID/no ID" to "throw out the govt and start again."

ex: talking about sexes and gay/straight in the military. I said one thing because (gave my reasons). Someone said another thing because (gave his reasons). A third person comes in and says "society needs to change to the point where men and women can shower together. We should have unisex bathrooms and recognize a naked body does not equal sexuality. Everyone should blah bahl balh......"

WTF. I don't even know how we got there.

I just don't understand the mentality that says "Voting problem? Change 300M people or don't do anything. Military problem? Change the entire country or don't do anything. Cat de-claw problem? Change the entire PLANET or don't do anything."

Christ these people piss me off. They're so stuck on...whatever it is they're stuck on...that they'd rather adopt a completely impossible position and do absolutely nothing than work toward what would most like help affect a positive change.

You are talking about me.

You asked:

So we have two choices...have men and women shower separately or change our entire society to disassociate nakedness and sexuality. Considering the ultimage goal is to have a system that works, which do you think is a better idea? I get that people who think like you would say changing society is a better idea but we'd also like to have a system that works NOW, not in a few hundred years.

And I gave my better idea.

I'm sorry if you don't think it's rational, but to me it related.

If you don't want an answer, don't ask?

To me, a bathroom is a bathroom, either showering or shitting....

7960 · 09-22-2006, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

You are talking about me.

That one was, yes.

You asked:, And I gave my better idea.

Between having two showers or changing our entire society to be less modest and not mind showing and washing intimate parts in front of the other sex, your "better idea" was the latter?

I'm sorry if you don't think it's rational, but to me it related.

If you don't want an answer, don't ask?

To me, a bathroom is a bathroom, either showering or shitting....

And to a few hundred million other people, it's not. But sure, go ahead and try to force that "it's only a bathroom" on other people and see how far it goes.

BTW, when I asked you it was rhetorical. I didn't actually believe you or anyone would think changing our entire society would be a better option than building a bathroom for each gender.

IminWonderland · 09-22-2006, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

That one was, yes.

Between having two showers or changing our entire society to be less modest and not mind showing and washing intimate parts in front of the other sex, your "better idea" was the latter?
And to a few hundred million other people, it's not. But sure, go ahead and try to force that "it's only a bathroom" on other people and see how far it goes.

BTW, when I asked you it was rhetorical. I didn't actually believe you or anyone would think changing our entire society would be a better option than building a bathroom for each gender.

Well, how was I supposed to know you didn't really want my answer? Being female, I take equality serious, and if I wanted to be treated equally, then to me, that means giving up certain social norms that we have become accustomed to...such as the bathroom issue...I'm not going to debate that issue in your thread...

But, I think if you ask questions, be prepared for people who are thinking beyond just your initial question, if you ask about gas, be prepared for the person who wants to do away with cars, because to them, it's the same issue. You might not think it is, but to some people, they think larger than a gas price....

Scrum · 09-22-2006, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

Being female, I take equality serious, and if I wanted to be treated equally, then to me, that means giving up certain social norms that we have become accustomed to...such as the bathroom issue...I'm not going to debate that issue in your thread...

Who let you out of the kitchen?

j/k

IminWonderland · 09-22-2006, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

Who let you out of the kitchen?

j/k

I'm loose!

7960 · 09-23-2006, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

Well, how was I supposed to know you didn't really want my answer? Being female, I take equality serious, and if I wanted to be treated equally, then to me, that means giving up certain social norms that we have become accustomed to...such as the bathroom issue...I'm not going to debate that issue in your thread...

But, I think if you ask questions, be prepared for people who are thinking beyond just your initial question, if you ask about gas, be prepared for the person who wants to do away with cars, because to them, it's the same issue. You might not think it is, but to some people, they think larger than a gas price....

So in other words, when I ask a question I should be ready for people who don't really want change to make totally outrageous suggestions and then get indignant because "nobody will listen." ..... ok, gotcha

Diesel66 · 09-23-2006, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

Well, how was I supposed to know you didn't really want my answer? Being female, I take equality serious, and if I wanted to be treated equally, then to me, that means giving up certain social norms that we have become accustomed to...such as the bathroom issue...I'm not going to debate that issue in your thread...

So making 99% of the world uncomforable is equality ?

Diamond Cross · 09-23-2006, 06:31 PM

I'm perswonally tired of people who wqant to change the world to force people to live by their world view myself. Whatever happened to live and let live? These days it's "do as I say".

Screw you and the horse you rode in on.

Donkey® · 09-23-2006, 06:38 PM

The problem is little changes here and there to major flaws in our system aren't going to do shit. You either have to overhaul the system or not do anything at all. Ex: Voting. ID cards or not, voting for the tools that are the only options I am given come voting time is not what I want to do...nor do millions of others.

IminWonderland · 09-23-2006, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

So in other words, when I ask a question I should be ready for people who don't really want change to make totally outrageous suggestions and then get indignant because "nobody will listen." ..... ok, gotcha

It's time to realize that we don't just have little piddly problems, we have major issues that need to be addressed. And sometimes the suggested solutions can seem dramatic and far fetched....but, so are the problems. I can't believe some of the things we talk about on this board, are actually still problems with all this supposed progress we have made as a species.

Sorry, this world isn't Yes and NO anymore, the problems are bigger than that.